Water stage

[TheMrZ]

stone spearheads are more suitable for tribes anyway. Also, even if you can't have normal combustion, there are still plenty of energy sources you could use underwater. Heck, if it comes down to it, you could make watertight containers and do the reactions in those.

Of course Volcanic heat vents and solar energy make for great power sources.

Simple electrical energy replaces all needs for combustion. Or use non-combustion fuel sources. Many metals react vigorously with water (group 1, eg Sodium) or things like Thermite reactions.

Just because we're so used to using combustion for everything doesn't mean we couldn't use other sources of energy if we needed to.

For guns, lack of oxygen is no problem! Have you noticed that bullets and shells are actually airtight? they don't work by combustion, they have chemicals inside that will decompose to give out a lot of gasses when heated suddenly. That works equally well underwater.

Alternatively, elastic potential has been used for most of human history, and the weapons of the future will work on electromagnetism.

[Ghelae]

Originally Posted by TheMrZ

stone spearheads are more suitable for tribes anyway. Also, even if you can't have normal combustion, there are still plenty of energy sources you could use underwater. Heck, if it comes down to it, you could make watertight containers and do the reactions in those.

Of course Volcanic heat vents and solar energy make for great power sources.

Simple electrical energy replaces all needs for combustion. Or use non-combustion fuel sources. Many metals react vigorously with water (group 1, eg Sodium) or things like Thermite reactions.

Just because we're so used to using combustion for everything doesn't mean we couldn't use other sources of energy if we needed to.

For guns, lack of oxygen is no problem! Have you noticed that bullets and shells are actually airtight? they don't work by combustion, they have chemicals inside that will decompose to give out a lot of gasses when heated suddenly. That works equally well underwater.

Alternatively, elastic potential has been used for most of human history, and the weapons of the future will work on electromagnetism.

The main problems with some of these are how to access the required energy sources. Electricity has to be generated in some way, and as far as I'm aware, the highly-reactive alkali metals are most often extracted by... electrolysis. So there's still the problem of generating electricity in the first place.

Elastic would work, but doesn't seem to be very advanced, and probably wouldn't be good for generating electricity (it might be, but I doubt it would be very efficient). It would work for weapons, if underwater civilisations are to use ballistas throughout their history.

The problem with using volcanic vents is that it really isn't a logical move for any species to make. It's one thing to hit two rocks together and create a spark, but another thing entirely to swim up a slope on an active volcano and go exploring inside.

I just don't see how a species would manage to even come up with solar power plants without having easy access to the necessary materials...

Thermite might work, I suppose. And since the game doesn't have to go into the technical details of what exactly happens, something that at least looks like a thermite reaction could be the primary intial energy source of a new underwater civilisation.

[123defacto]

Originally Posted by Ghelae

What did it mean by that, then? Some of the Star Trek species do seem to match up with some of the Spore archetypes - Ferengi are Traders, Klingons are Warriors, the Borg are Grox, for example. What were you expecting?

Foe example, the only difference between the grox and other species are that they are stronger, can survive on T0 planets, and speak different.
It could be more difference!

But i guess your right...

[Ghelae]

Originally Posted by 123defacto

Foe example, the only difference between the grox and other species are that they are stronger, can survive on T0 planets, and speak different.
It could be more difference!

Ah, so you want more differences between species. That would be a good addition, too. That's where an Empire Personalisation expansion pack could come in...

[alivingalienrace]

Originally Posted by Rebecca1208

So many times, I have seen threads like this be created. Personally, I want a water stage too, but there are reasons why EA couldn't/didn't add it. Also, about half of the community do not want a water stage.

If EA is listening, I would very much like to see them add my idea of a solution

About the underwater control, you should just have 3 parts (Like the mouths) that when you put them on your creature when coming out of cell stage, determine if its a water, land, or amphibious creature. As for the navigation you could just control the creature like you do with your spaceship in space stage on a planet. plus and minus (and scroll on mouse) for depth and arrow keys (or WASD) for movement. Its not that tricky cause I personally think I'm a pretty good pilot when it comes to those controls so why not be used for underwater creature stage?

[ultraguy]

in my opinion i think it should be a optional feature, so you download it as a patch, or a tick box in settings to disable it. then it can make people who want it can play it, whilst others can just disable it.

[TheMrZ]

Electricity generation can be solar, kinetic (currents) or geothermal. no probs there.

volcanic vents are rarely up on big mountains, they're found at the base of volcanoes and in volcanic areas, not the craters themselves. Also, due to the effect of water, underwater volcanoes often aren't as steep (or apparently so) as their land counterparts. And also our creature can swim, they go up and down anyway.

Vents are a normal heat source for many marine creatures, many marine organisms live around them as a source of heat and energy anyway, and lots of important chemicals are spewed from them. Hence it would be a logical step.

much more logical than hitting flint together to make fire, that was probably first discovered by chance, then used once discovered.

You really have little idea how many species are categorised as "plants" and already have solar systems? Also, the photoelectric effect can be utilised by most metals. advanced solar panels is hard, yes, but basic ones are easy. we've had them for a century without calling them that.

[Ghelae]

Originally Posted by TheMrZ

volcanic vents are rarely up on big mountains, they're found at the base of volcanoes and in volcanic areas, not the craters themselves. Also, due to the effect of water, underwater volcanoes often aren't as steep (or apparently so) as their land counterparts. And also our creature can swim, they go up and down anyway.

Vents are a normal heat source for many marine creatures, many marine organisms live around them as a source of heat and energy anyway, and lots of important chemicals are spewed from them. Hence it would be a logical step.

Well, fair enough. The volcanic vents might be a logical place to set up a power plant, then.

much more logical than hitting flint together to make fire, that was probably first discovered by chance, then used once discovered.

Yes, it was discovered by chance. But since humans and their ancestors have probably been knocking together flint rocks to shape them for maybe a couple of million years, it's only really a matter of time before somebody hits them together a certain way and notices a spark. I'm not sure how somebody works out how to generate and control energy release from a volcanic vent.

You really have little idea how many species are categorised as "plants" and already have solar systems? Also, the photoelectric effect can be utilised by most metals. advanced solar panels is hard, yes, but basic ones are easy. we've had them for a century without calling them that.

Of course I know about plants. But its one thing having a species access solar energy in their cells, and another thing having another species work it out and figure out how to make their own version of it.

Plus, the problem with metals is that they usually need to be extracted in the first place. That's probably also a problem with making a geothermal plant, and really, making anything that generates electricity.
Actually, that's the main problem with underwater civilisations, full stop. While they wouldn't necessarily need metal as a construction material, they'll almost certainly need it for something.

[TheMrZ]

well how did we work out water wheels? we see a flow, we stick something in the way so that the flow moves it.
A volcanic vent is a gushing source of fast moving gasses. stick a turbine on top.
Same technique as such archaic devices as windmills, water wheels, steam engines....just about every energy source we have used for mechanical purposes has used some form of turbine up to the latter half of the 20th century.
so how did we work it out?

Stone or wood does the job of early machines, metal is only needed in more advanced high-stress versions.
Many metals can be purified by reduction: you put them with a better reducing agent and out comes your metal. Alternatively, those volcanic vents are hot, providing all the energy you'd need for more conventional forms of extraction.

It's not like they'll have all this stuff available from the start, but remember that humans didn't have much more than sticks and stones to begin with.
And we didn't first extract metals in the way we do today, because we didn't have coal or oil back then: we didn't have access to it. Nor did we have blast furnaces.

The geothermal idea is actually more likely to work as certain metals are found in their pure form: precious metals like Gold, silver, platinum etc (all of which would work for making the geothermal plants)

Should the worst come to the worst, it's not to hard to evolve oxygen, even underwater. There's plenty in the water already, hence how fish are able to breathe through their gills!

[Ghelae]

So, they could build a wooden (or coral, or some equivalent) wheel over the vents, or... throw rocks in them?
Yeah, that might work, actually. At least, it would be realistic enough for Spore, and since that's what we're discussing, then I suppose it's realistic enough.

[jamdude3000]

I think they should let you make underwater adventures too

[jamdude3000]

how about legs for land, fins for underwater and fins for amphibious

[Rebecca1208]

Nice ideas, however, please remember to use the little edit button beneath your post, as double-posting is frowned upon


If we're on the Water Stage debate again, I can always fish out my expansion idea? (pun not intended)

[ThumbsUp1]

It would be more or less the same as the city stage, as well as the creature stage, the only real differnce would be animation as well as a very limited amount of parts, as well as a few pointless time consuming extas the flying saucer could preform, so I'm my view *sun enters view* that I no longer have I say.......

*boom*

*fades away before message could be sent however leaves note stating:*

"I don't really care"

[Saurus91]

well i can easly think up a gameplay for underwater stage

well creature water stage is umm shown like in the 05 demo

tribes
tribemen wold have to have gills and they wold make spears from corrals they can be wery sharp and sticking stuff togeather by sticky clam juices >.<

civ stage
wold have a dome around the city like in space stage the colonys on t0 planets
the vehicles cold be sea crawlers something like a underwater tanlalalalaoats
and for airplanes wold be subs that cold fly around the dry land like planes tho and have the ability to dive underwater
energy wold be goten from static corrals
glow green give huge amount of electricity to whoever touches it
put in the main generator and whola ur powersource

space the spaceship wold have a shield around it so it cold dive in all kinds of water
if your people are fishy things (cant breath air) then the colonys placed on land wold have a glass around them (not dome) that keeps and filters the water for the colony

[TheMrZ]

or, being underwater creatures, there'd be no need whatsoever for a dome around the city.

a pretty garbage idea for a power source there, you really pushed science fiction with that one. Glowing static coral full of energy, enough to power a generator? In an eclectically conducting liquid?

vehicles: sub instead of tank, can move in water, fires torpedoes. Crawler instead of boat, can move on land only, built only on land neighbouring cities, aircraft is still aircraft, perhaps different weapon?

For space, the all ships can dive underwater, land or sea creature (they can go into space and through black holes, a bit of water is no problem) Sea empires have to build colonies underwater, just as land ones have to be built on land, and you upgrade T-score with underwater fauna.

and ecosystem balancing missions could be underwater or above water.

[TheMrZ]

*sigh* forum DP fail again.

[weirdfreak]

how the hell did ea not realise the potential of a stage where you are a fish

[Rebecca1208]

They did. But they removed it.

[Scottbob]

I voted yes yes yes because it would open a whole new world of spore how cool would it be to transform your favourite creatures into freaky fish!