Spore Copy Protection Q&A

[Sporescore]

Come on you have no real proff of any of this stuff. Then you can deauthorise these keys, just as you would authorise and itunes account for a computer , my computer died. So i e-mailed itunes and got my authorisations reset. Then if you are upgrading windows then you should deauthorise the game, admittedly it would be good to see an automatic deauthorisation when you installed the game so that therefore you don't have to waste time deauthorising it. But you guys are all gun-ho about this wholen thing when admittedly your sitting reading wikipedia. I know this post may seem a bit critical, but some of you are over reacting, of course there will be the accidental loss, of a code once in a while, but how is that different from losing the install key for any previous games ikt is the same thing, or losing the cd or damaging the cd, or having a virus corrupt the game files, who are haveing a narrow minded view on the bigger picture a lot more can go wrong.
Sorry if i have offended anyone.

Lazytim, i assume you are talking about a handful of games that won't run on vista because i installed 8 previous games onto my new computer with vista and can play them all. Personally you've got used to the same old routine of Xp, understandable, but most games that are being released if not all are cross-compatiable with Vista and Xp because the companies want to make money and don this by not limiting their target audience, so i must assume you are talking about games 2 or 3 years old. It would helkp if you could give examples.

[Abrax]

Sorry, but with this conditions i am not buying it. The 3 instalation limit is unacceptable, and it angers me because i have been waiting for this game for 3 years now and i have to forget about it a few months before release...

Sorry if there are errors, this is not my language

[gremlinitus]

Originally Posted by Abrax

Sorry, but with this conditions i am not buying it. The 3 instalation limit is unacceptable, and it angers me because i have been waiting for this game for 3 years now and i have to forget about it a few months before release...

Sorry if there are errors, this is not my language

I don't blame you. I too have been looking forward to the release of this game but now I won't be buying it. I hope that a few will follow this example and EA loses enough sales that they realise customers won't accept being ripped off in this way.

I don't want to have to pay a fortune in telephone support just to continue to play the game I have shelled out a fortune already to buy.

I have games from way back in the DOS era that I occasionally install and have a play on, but these games are no longer supported. What happens when the support finally ends for Spore? Would we ever be able to install it again and have a play on it or will the disk just become an expensive coaster?

The protection methods I don't care about as long as it still installs and plays 5 or even 10 years down the line and if I don't have an internet connection by then, I can still play it. What I do object strongly to is the 3 install limit and the online authentication. If players don't have internet, what happens then? What happens when they try to install long after the authentication methods are dropped? EA won't be running an authentication server for the game forever and if they authenticate by phone for non-internet users, they won't be paying for a call centre for it forever. It will just be another CD or DVD that you can't use cos you've effectively lost the serial number for it.

I buy games that I can play for years and still have fun with. I don't buy games that have a 3 or 4 year life span than that's it.

The variations of creatures you can create in Spore have a potential for many years of play. It's a pity the protection method prevents it.

[Sporescore]

the more i think about it now the more i am hating the idea of a 3 install rule, it is like making us pay, a bit like a subscription. We subscribe each ntime we get 3 installs.

[Wishbone77]

I've edited bits of your argument together for clarity.

Originally Posted by gremlinitus

The protection methods I don't care about as long as it still installs and plays 5 or even 10 years down the line and if I don't have an internet connection by then, I can still play it. What I do object strongly to is... [edit] ...and the online authentication. If players don't have internet, what happens then? What happens when they try to install long after the authentication methods are dropped? EA won't be running an authentication server for the game forever and if they authenticate by phone for non-internet users, they won't be paying for a call centre for it forever.

Look, the whole "What if I have no internet connection" argument is invalid, because the basic premise of the game is that it populates your world with content over the internet. Therefore, if you do not have an internet connection, then you cannot play Spore. The game itself (not just the copy protection) requires an internet connection in order to function. End Of Discussion.

Everything else, I completely agree with

[Wishbone77]

Originally Posted by Sporescore

the more i think about it now the more i am hating the idea of a 3 install rule, it is like making us pay, a bit like a subscription. We subscribe each ntime we get 3 installs.

And we get to pay the full price of a game each time in the bargain. Aren't we lucky?

[Cyberfrog]

I saw a good post over at the US forum that I want to quote in its entirety:

Originally Posted by JPFrostfox

I canceled my pre-order when I got burned by Mass Effect. This SecuROM DRM is absolutely terrible, not only does it lock you out after three activations but you have to PAY in order to get EA to give you another activation (you have to call their pay-for-support number, there is NOT A FREE option for REACTIVATION).

These are important facts that people MUST be made aware of/pay attention to that a lot of us learned about having been lied to and used as laboratory mice with Mass Effect:

1) Activations can be caused/used up by changing the user logged in under Windows
2) Activations can be caused/used up when changing any hardware, even something as simple and non-invasive as adding more RAM or changing the configuration of the RAM, as ludicrous as that is.
3) Activations can be caused/used up as a result of UPDATING DRIVERS!!!
4) Three (3) activations is all you are guaranteed. Any further activation is done on a case by case basis and requires you to prove your purchase in some cases. You are at the mercy of the whim of the support (which in EA's case is generally severely lacking).
5) SecuROM protected games refuse to run on some machines at all, the only way to solve the issue (ie: error 6000) is to resort to using a pirate crack to get your legal copy to work.

All in all, I've never in my vast gaming experience run into a protection system which makes me feel like pirating the game is the better/more attractive option. In the interest of honesty, I can say that I'm apprehensive about buying SPORE having gotten my pre-ordered Creature Creator and finding it also infected with the same system. I'm seriously considering resorting to 'what-is-unmentionable' instead of buying it from gogamer.com like all my other game purchasing. There is something wrong in the industry when they are turning fans like me away and promoting the idea of pirating a game as a more friendly option!

It's just depressing, I love these games and still have fond memories of buying games such as SimLife (anyone remember that?) and all the other Maxis titles. It's turned my enthusiasm for SPORE into a nervous apprehension about whether I will buy it or not. I'm tired of being screwed over by DRM that doesn't protect anything but a whole truckload of bad PR and angry users.

The pirates look forward to breaking a new system, they love it - this does not kill piracy. It does kill the joy and support of gamers who are FED UP with being mistreated because others who download instead of purchasing. If you are treated like one of them in the first place, what is the difference? Certainly not a clean conscience, because supporting this abuse of consumers is just as much of an evil in my view of things.

So even if you can get an activation back using that file in ..\Spore\Support (why isn't this documented anywhere? Why doesn't EA let us know it exists and what it can be used for? How can people be expected to remember to un-activate their games before re-installing windows? Before upgrading hardware? Before their hard drive suddenly dies?), I haven't tested it... this way of treating your customers is horrendous, and as I've stated before is the reason I'm not pre-ordering Spore. (I will however order it if it turns out it lives up to the hype. But future EA titles are likely to have very little appeal if they keep this lalalala up.)

[Simburgur]

Well, when the game comes out, ill buy it, and activate it, and create an account, if for some reason it stops me playing due to the DRM, i'll pirate it. simple as that.

Anlalalalala the same for any other game EA or another company releases with this DRM.

[Markt75]

Originally Posted by Simburgur

Well, when the game comes out, ill buy it, and activate it, and create an account, if for some reason it stops me playing due to the DRM, i'll pirate it. simple as that.

Anlalalalala the same for any other game EA or another company releases with this DRM.

So what your saying is that EA and Securom are forcing you into using pirate versions. Well there we are folks, lets give a big round of applause to EA and Securom, winners of the dumbest anti-piracy initiate of all time, don't be shy guys come on up and give us all a wave

It really is such a shame that someone won't acknowledge this has nothing to do with Piracy at all, it is all about making more money for EA, and they can do that buy getting people to call a premium rate number for support/unlocks, or from those who are daft enough to just go out and buy the game again.

I'm also hearing some scary things about this latest version of securom, it is alright EA/Securom saying you can install it on 3 machines, but did you know that in most peoples experience with the same DRM in mass effect the following is true for customers:

1) Upgrade BIOS = 1 activation.
2) Multiple OS's = 1 activation per OS.
3) Replace hard drive = 1 activation.
4) infact replace pretty much any hardware = 1 activation
5) different user profiles = 1 activation per profile.

So as you can see, this is complete rubbish about the 3 machines thing. You can very very easily run out of activations on just one machine.

Now here is another thing, my understanding is that for this latest version there is no revoke tool to give you an activation back, so even uninstalling the game will not give you one back, so once you've used up your activations that is it, it is a choice of either calling an expensive number and begging for an activation, emailing and waiting up to a week for an activation, or buying the game again.

I re-iterate, there has been nothing whatsoever from EA to indicate this is anything other than a cynical money making scam. I urge as many people as possible to boycott any EA product that comes with such draconian DRM implemented until such time as EA see the light, and realise what they are doing to their customers. If we accept these measures they will only get worse with the next version of DRM.

[Sporescore]

Okay guys so who has any of the EA top dogs e-mail addresses, i just want to make the little voice heard, or do you guys reckon the bbc or other news networks may be interested in such a scam? Lets make a good old fashioned petition people, if their going to such extreme lengths that we are no longer buying a game but activations , at what £10 each then what on Zog has happened, what little junior excecutive with his shoes from clark's, if we do this and this and then o say it is DRM we can make more money!! But it is impractical if we can't deauthorise a validation, and if these uses of install validations occur when well i press a button other than to play the game. I think somebody has to do a bit of reading Digital Rights Management: A failure in the developed world, a danger to the developing world | Electronic Frontier Foundation

This paper discusses the failure of DRM in the developed world, where it has been in wide deployment for a decade with no benefit to artists and with substantial cost to the public and to due process, free speech and other civil society fundamentals.

Can i also ask this is a vital question does the porduct packaging of previous products state that it uses Securom DRM proTection??

This is my speculative opinion, and in no way am i accusing EA, but questioning the trading standards of incorperating this feature into a product.
Also whats does the product state about installations or activations, because if it says installations, and if the faults that have been stated in the previous posts are correct and not isolated, then this in my opinion i am by no means an expert, but is that not a false description, and misleading information. However, like us all i must assume this product is legal.

[Melkathi]

Like others here, I have now uninstalled the Creature Creator, the EA download thing and will have to see if SecuRom is still hidding somewhere.
I am very dissapointed. The EU - US sporepedia thing had already taken part of the fun out of it and a lot of the faith that the services offered will be worth all the inconvieniances one would have to endure.
With the copy protection system unlikely to change I really cant see myself giving hard earned money for this.
A pitty, I really did want to play Spore.

Bye bye

[wildneb]

Ok, firstly...who knows 100% about these issues>? I just read a review on amazon that claimed the whole three install thing meant you can only install on three machines, however, you can install as many times as you like on each of those three PC's.

Also...has anyone got an official email address or something for EA so we can ask the source directly?

[wildneb]

I have sent the following email to EA customer support, I will post the reply when I receive it on this thread....

Firstly, I apologise if this is covered in an FAQ, however, I have read them and find them to be slightly misleading, and would like to confirm several points -

1) The three activations.
Does this mean we are allowed to activate on three machines once, or on three machines as many times as we like (with re installations and hardware updates)?

2) Reactivations
Assuming your answer above will be that we are allowed three activates FULL STOP. How will appealing for more work. I am aware that it will be on a case by case basis, however, my thoughts are that whether the user is pirating are not; they will profess that they are being honest and it is due to new hardware etc that they need another activation. How are we to prove we are honest players?

3) Paying for Reactivations
I have heard that for other games such as mass effect, if more reactivations are required - you have to pay for them! Is this true? and in which case, are we being punished for upgrading so we can enjoy your product further.

I hope you do not take this as a hostile email, I simply wish to straighten out the confusion I have read on forums. I am very much looking forward to playing Spore, and wish to confirm these technicalities before pre-ordering my copy.

Thank you very much, I look forward to reading your reply.

[Maint]

wery well said, i hope you get an anser asap, and post it her so we all can read

but as i has said in anothere topic, i will buy it no matter what, i pirate it if i need to

[yoshi1476]

Yoda says:

Be getting spore beside test drive unlimited had securom and I have installed it 4 times now due to reformatting and then stuffing up the os and reformatting another 2 times and it still works fine, I will. Yes, hmmm.

[wildneb]

They have escalated the email to the senior support staff, so will be a little longer in waiting for reply yet

[Wishbone77]

This would be so much easier if some EA staff would simply answer a few questions on the forums each week! It really does seem like they simply don't want us to know the answers, because it would reveal just how badly we're being screwed.

[yoshi1476]

Yoda says:

Worry I turned all the ea spies into candy so now the head people will have to come since there will be no spies left, do not. Yeesssssss.

[flatfroggerx]

People who are pro DRM haven't got a leg to stand on and they know it, no matter the product, no matter the service.

[wildneb]

...so this is the reply I got -

Greetings,

Activations are based on hardware profiles, if your hardware profile changes it takes an activation off. That being said all that is required is contact to support. We will add more activations where appropriate.

Thank you,

Sean M
Electronic Arts Customer Support

They just seem to have dodged the question about paying for reactivations and how to prove your honest and need another activation.

That all being said, I'm still going to buy the game and take my chances that EA will not let me down.

[yoshi1476]

What do you expect them to say they are a games company. Atleast they are better than Nintendo who says to go to this place then this place which will then tell you to go to the first place you went and Konami who just says "we are unable to answer this question".

[Saurus91]

ok if i will need to pay for reactivations i have 58 friends that agree i wont buy it!

[yoshi1476]

Hopefully EA will add an online activation support like the HP 24 hour online support!

[Wishbone77]

I sent this to EAUK_Baker011 on July 12th, that is 8 days ago, as of this writing:

Hi Baker,
I know you're probably a busy guy and all that, but still... You've created a Q & A thread on the Spore forum, and then you've stayed away from it for two months afterwards. People are getting nervous. Really nervous. What it seems like from our side, is that we asked some questions that EA doesn't want us to know the answers to. This makes us pretty certain we know what those answers are, and we don't like them.

You have to start communicating. Answer our questions. If you don't have the answers, tell us that. If you're not allowed to give us the answers tell us that. Just tell us something. The continued silence from EA is much too sinister, and seems to imply the worst. Many are cautious now. I was going to preorder the game, but I'm not going to anymore. I know I'm not the only one. None of us want to be caught in the middle of another disaster like Bioshock or Mass Effect. So we're waiting. And if our worst fears are confirmed, many of us won't buy the game. Of course, many of us will buy it regardless, but we won't be happy about it.

Also, this is not the only board where these things are discussed. Many other gamer boards out there have similar discussions. Word of mouth is fast, and EA is rapidly building a reputation for not caring about their customers at all. So please, show us you care. Talk to us. And if possible, try to send our sentiments up the corporate ladder.

Best regards,
Wishbone

And still no sign of him, or any other EA representatives in this thread. I'd say they are afraid we'll find out exactly how bad they're sticking it to us.

[es-ist]

While I don't really mind the 3 activation limit, the idea that to overcome it you have to call them is ridiculous. And to those of you saying people are overreacting, you're wrong. Nobody knows for sure the copy protection. True. But EA's recent history with DRM and reports are certainly not in our favour.

No answers. Some rumours. Bad history. Not lookin too good.

Even Windows, an OS which costs multiple times a game, has less restrictive activation. You can activate it 10 times before calling Microsoft AFAIK. And if you have an OEM copy, you don't even need to activate it. While its tied to the hardware, tied to the hardware and no activation seems (to me) slightly better than any hardware but 3 activations only.

If they can't live without requiring activation, why not can't we "deactivate" it on uninstall. I'd even be happy with one activation, but allowing an "Uninstall and deactivate" option (and if your computer crashes, then you call them - not perfect, but a lot better than current proposal). My ideal balance between copy protection (while it's useless, some people just don't really get that) and fairness would be:
1. You buy the game
2. You attach the serial number to your account
3. You log in on computer A.
4. The server records computer A as the current computer. You can now disconnect from the internet and continue to play.
5. You want to move to computer B. So you reconnect computer A to the internet. You logout your Spore account.
6. You login to computer B, and you're all set.
7. Repeat steps 5-6 as necessary (perhaps with a reasonable minimum gap of ~24 hours)

People don't share accounts since the user who created it can be easily tracked down by IP and an account being logged into every 20s would certainly arouse suspiscion. It would be easy to use, simple to implement since it's based on merging two existing systems - the accounts and the activations, and fair... ilalalala still falls afoul of players who might not have internet, but it would be better than the current proposal.