Spore Copy Protection Q&A

[MetroPolice]

Originally Posted by 777788889999

I encourage you to read this article. I wasnt the first to think about ignoring pirates. Look at this ---> PC game developer has radical message: ignore the pirates

I agree tho. I readed it. The first few month is the biggest income for them. Than they wont really care if it gets pirated when the income is already minimum. Thats why they say it.

[798897]

Think about it though, the main causes of Piracy are either;
1)Expense - It is too costly for the quality, so people download it for free
2)Improvements - The game is lacking in quality/content/or it is filled with bugs, so people tinker with it (Which would be the case for Spore)

If a developer creates a game so amazing, people will pay through the nose for it, like with spore.

If you then add something that jeopardizes that quality, say with Security software that plays with your computer, or a limit to how many times you can install it, pirates will do everything in their power to ensure that their game has none of these problems

[NicMacc]

the article is great, and has a decent point...maybe there should be more faith put in us lot...but beware the media. that article states x game having no copy protection and selling thousands, but it doesnt state how many people downloaded the game illegally, and how much potential profit lost because of it

[Mokkun]

The shopping mall analogy, for it to be true, the store would have a Security guard follow you around, also he would follow you in to the changerom, then when leaving the store, he would do a strip search followed by a full cavity search..

Securom quite a annoyance, it dictates what you can and can not have of software on your computer, for a fast example, it will not let a game run if you are running process explorer, process explorer is a advanced version of taskmanager, so its a pointless block, personally i hope EA/Securom gets sued over the mess Securom is.

and im yust waiting for the Viruses that will piggy back on securom. they are sure to come as its to easy to missuse the security holes securom creates as it assumes admin powers on your machine.

[798897]

Id say its more like a bad guard dog.
That tries its best to do what its been trained for, but always goes back to being a homeless stray, doing what it likes, Crapping on the harddrive etc :P

[Watashiii]

Imagine a shopping mall where they don't let you in if your pants have big pockets because you must be trying to steal something

[tangfastic91]

And then multiply by two and put it to the power of 10. its secuROM!!!

[NicMacc]

i'm regretting the shopping centre metaphor now...it was used to show EA arent treating everyone like criminals...i wasn't using it as a direct comparison of SecuRom

[es-ist]

The shopping centre analogy doesn't work at all, IMO.

Goods in a shop are their property. Not the shoppers. At least not until they buy it.

If you buy Spore the licence to play it is YOUR property. Note, I did not say the game is (cause I know someone would just love to point out that it is "licensed not sold"). The computer(s) you play it on are your property.

Therefore EA have no right to restrict what you do with your licence (except sue you if you breach their copyright). Online sharing can be tracked by IP etc., disc copying can be greatly hindered by long established means, and serial number sharing can be tracked by watching for any serial number being used an exceptional number of times, in different parts of the world. For example.

Yes, I know there is lots of software out there that can overcome anti-copy technology, and there are ways around the other two as well. But guess what EA? There will be a way around this too. Except unlike old systems, SecuROM bothers legit users too.

In short: EA are treating everyone like criminals. Ignoring the problems it can cause, it is reasonable UP TO the point where you can only install the game 3 times.

[NicMacc]

Originally Posted by es-ist

The shopping centre analogy doesn't work at all, IMO.

Goods in a shop are their property. Not the shoppers. At least not until they buy it.

as stated...shopping center analogy wasnt a direct comparison to SecuROM!

and true, it is your property...unless you downloaded it...hence anti-piracy software like SecuROM

[tangfastic91]

Heres a sound analogy. EA is represented by a building, pirates by burglers, and customers are the friends. Now EA doesnt want the burglers getting in, so they put an electric charge on the door so that whoever touches it gets zapped. However this doesn't stop the burglers as they come in through the window anyway. It does stop the friends coming to visit though...

[Gattack]

I've read all this thread and from what I gather the securom is the sameone thats cause problems for people you bought Mass Effect for the PC

so I checked the mass effect forum and i saw a stickied post stating that the 3 activation msg is just an error and there trying to fix it and that you DONT need to buy new activations, has anyone else seen this? (if i happened to read it wrong remember mistakes happen dont dont be moose and flame me)


and also cant rememeber if it was in the same thread or not but some said if you have the 3 activations block just delete the paul.dll file and you can play


lol deleting a single file curcumvents the protection hah if thats true its kinda funny

now my reason for posting is just to make sure you guys & girls know about this just incase you don't please dont flame me im just trying to help out a little bit

oh and by the way I was deffinatly gunan buy spore but now..I'm not sure

oh and I've had problems with securom in the past it wouldnt let me play cause i have 2 virtual HD's :S

gotta say though thank god its not starforce I hate that

[es-ist]

Originally Posted by NicMacc

and true, it is your property...unless you downloaded it...hence anti-piracy software like SecuROM

But as I and so many others already pointed out, copy-protection has always and will always be broken. The pirates will win over. The legit users will be the ones to suffer.

A great example is AACS. AACS (copy protection on Blu-ray) was designed on the assumption it would be broken, and would be altered each time it was. But on several occassions the new encryption keys have been available on the internet BEFORE they even released films with them.

A system like this can be summed up as follows: legit users suffer because they are constrained by the restrictions. Pirates do not: they find a way around them

[NicMacc]

Originally Posted by es-ist

But as I and so many others already pointed out, copy-protection has always and will always be broken. The pirates will win over. The legit users will be the ones to suffer.

A great example is AACS. AACS (copy protection on Blu-ray) was designed on the assumption it would be broken, and would be altered each time it was. But on several occassions the new encryption keys have been available on the internet BEFORE they even released films with them.

A system like this can be summed up as follows: legit users suffer because they are constrained by the restrictions. Pirates do not: they find a way around them

i agree completly...the pirates always win...they always will, and its the legit users that suffer...I'm not exactly a SecuROM fan...

but because the pirates win doesnt mean you stop trying. The more advanced the piracy gets, the more desperate game companies, EA included, will become. hence SecuRom...

Basically an alternative is needed...but i cant for the life of me think of one

[Dankidus]

Alternative = nothing - but thats just a crazy idea... they have to annoy people who fork over money somehow. SecuROMs website actually sites "if you convert 30% of the pirates to buy your product..". I wonder how many pirates have been deterred by SecuROM this year. MEPC has the same protection as Spore, yet MEPC got hacked in like a day. Tell me something isnt fishy about this and I'll show you the biggest all you can eat catfish buffet right under EA/Sonys corporate diner.

Seriously its gotten to the point where I have to research a game on whether it has some malicious "protection" on it.. at least now its easier by saying "oh look, EA is on the package!".


BTW - I'll be looking on these boards for "OMG the game doesnt work..." and tracking their sales the day of its release. I'll also look to see if Spore gets cracked that week. If/when these things happen, and sales are down, I will be laughing my butt off, and very hopeful that the head of the DRM snake will be cut off with this sacrifice of such a potentially great game.

Keep your filthy malware out of my funtime plz kkthx!

[dd790]

Originally Posted by NicMacc

Basically an alternative is needed...but i cant for the life of me think of one

I'd say a lower sale price would be a start. £30 (cheapest I have found so far) isn't too bad but some games that charge £50 is the same as 2-3 weeks food shopping (that is addmittedly my heavily budgetted student shopping so nothing fancy but still its alot to people that don't have much)

Also I'd like to point out pirated games are often avaliable BEFORE release. Assassin's Creed would be a good example, that game was availiable a couple of months before release (although apparently didn't work fully)
Also I have a huge amout of respect for Stardock for what they do, releasing games without copy protection. Just because Sin's of a Solar Empire had no copy protection does that mean I downloaded it? No, it just means theres 3 levels less lala to go through when installing and playing
I'd like to add that I don't endorse or encorage piracy, I am merely stating my opinion

[flatfroggerx]

Originally Posted by Gattack

I've read all this thread and from what I gather the securom is the sameone thats cause problems for people you bought Mass Effect for the PC

so I checked the mass effect forum and i saw a stickied post stating that the 3 activation msg is just an error and there trying to fix it and that you DONT need to buy new activations, has anyone else seen this? (if i happened to read it wrong remember mistakes happen dont dont be moose and flame me)

lol, yeah, i've seen it you dont have to buy them but phoning EA's customer support line is pricey business or a very long wait and a load of personal details in an email.

Originally Posted by Gattack

gotta say though thank god its not starforce I hate that

haha yeah, starforce the protection which cannibalised cd/dvd drives alike. You know starforce actually killed one of my cd drives but it was before they started this "bring us proof" thing.

[es-ist]

Trust works.

The music industry had CDs DRM free for years.
Then they introduced ones with DRM. Just like all DRM, it was broken over and over.
Then they began to open up to online downloads with DRM.
As they began to realise that the CD DRM didn't work (since it didn't even always require intentional circumvention). They all abandoned CDs with DRM. Things didn't start to go downhill.

Now, the major labels have even started to allow DRM-free downloads. These are files all completely ready to be shared on P2P networks and torrents, but yet the net profits of the major labels keeps rising.

The music industry are no angels (e.g. they claim every illegal download is a lost sale, but many downloaders download more than they could possibly afford to buy), but they did eventually see the light.

Trust works.

[flatfroggerx]

Originally Posted by es-ist

Trust works.

The music industry had CDs DRM free for years.
Then they introduced ones with DRM. Just like all DRM, it was broken over and over.
Then they began to open up to online downloads with DRM.
As they began to realise that the CD DRM didn't work (since it didn't even always require intentional circumvention). They all abandoned CDs with DRM. Things didn't start to go downhill.

Now, the major labels have even started to allow DRM-free downloads. These are files all completely ready to be shared on P2P networks and torrents, but yet the net profits of the major labels keeps rising.

Trust works.

Indeed, look at most of the games on stardock, they have no protection yet you see them being some of the best games AND best selling. Look at sins of a solar empire, that rocketed into the charts even before it hit the UK retail market.

[Dankidus]

Originally Posted by flatfroggerx

Indeed, look at most of the games on stardock, they have no protection yet you see them being some of the best games AND best selling. Look at sins of a solar empire, that rocketed into the charts even before it hit the UK retail market.

Maybe Maxis will come to them later on to publish games .....

[NicMacc]

Originally Posted by flatfroggerx

Indeed, look at most of the games on stardock, they have no protection yet you see them being some of the best games AND best selling. Look at sins of a solar empire, that rocketed into the charts even before it hit the UK retail market.

how much do you think might have been lost though by the ease of piracy? im not disagreeing with your point....but if i were an EA accountant looking into how much money was lost through piracy, some sort of anti-piracy software would probably look pretty good

EA is a business and probably feels the need to protect its investments.

[Dankidus]

Originally Posted by NicMacc

how much do you think might have been lost though by the ease of piracy? im not disagreeing with your point....but if i were an EA accountant looking into how much money was lost through piracy, some sort of anti-piracy software would probably look pretty good

EA is a business and probably feels the need to protect its investments.

EA also pays royalties on each cd they put that lalalala on. That is in addition to an initial payout per product. Plus, how many people have seriously been deterred by DRM? Probably zero. Ease of piracy? I wont touch piracy cuz the chance a game might not run correctly if pirated or the chance of a worm in it or something. Thats enough to make me say "screw it, ill by the damn thing" if it has no protection or reasonable measures put on it. But for now, if it says EA on it, im not buying it ... so they can put that in their little brainstorm thanks to this.

[Wishbone77]

Originally Posted by NicMacc

how much do you think might have been lost though by the ease of piracy?

Nothing. Any copy protection is broken sooner rather than later, and those who do want to download an illegal copy will do so. But the more aggressive the copy protection, the more people who would have bought the game, may choose to download an illegal copy instead, to not have to deal with it.

[dd790]

How do you see how much money is lost from piracy? If your game doesn't sell well is it because it has been pirated alot or because its lalalala?

Crysis suffered a huge loss to the sales they were expecting "due to piracy". Personally I played the demo they released and thought "Yea this is alright but I ain't paying £50 for something I need a quad-core quad-sli system to play at decent quality". So they lost they're sale to me through quality vs price not piracy

[NicMacc]

i concede! you're right...

but i can still see why EA would add anti-piracy software on their products.