SecuROM and SPORE!

[PieJesu]

Vista OS and XP OS both included an installation limit. Vista was limited to one install only too. Adobe also use this system. As do 3Ds Max.

Thing is, all these companies have a support system. With vista, their autonomous answering machine happily dealt with my problem and re-issued me with a new installation key to install on my new computer.

If EA have a similar support system then all is well. Who knows, they might be licensing the program to schools and releasing a corporate installation version allowing multiple installs specifically for the schools.

Whilst I agree that SecuRom is bad, you can't blame 'em for trying to stop the crackers. They do have a new level of security. ISPs in the UK are negotiating with companies and possibly going to monitor P2P usage and limit it. I indeed recieved an email from my ISP telling me that they will throttle down my p2p connection speed on torrents from various tracker websites.

[Cyberfrog]

Apart from seeing some blurb on the news < TV > yonks ago about sony useing it on their music discs (...)

SecuROM and the infamous Sony rootkit isn't the same thing though. Yet SecuROM is hardly an innocent, unproblematic application - some call it a rootkit; for a lot of people the fact that it installs itself without telling you (and happily grants itself administrator-level rights on your computer) and gives itself the right to observe what (even perfectly legitimate) applications you run, and may tell you to shut them down before the protected game will run, and to observe whether you are trying to make a 1:1 copy of a protected disc (I'm pretty sure taking a backup this way is a right granted by law in Norway) is unacceptable.

But while I despise SecuROM and being treated like this (including the horrid activation scheme, if it indeed will be part of the package) as a legitimate customer, it is not a dealbreaker. It is a "think long and hard if you really want this game" kind of thing. So Spore better live up to the hype -- I'm not pre-ordering, I'll wait for reviews and they better be stellar .

[Marcolon]

Originally Posted by Eroneouse

The online authenticate I do not mind be it every 10 days or every time online content is accessed. Its the 3 strikes and your out policy of the limited loads thing that gets me. If the game ships with that feature then this player will probably be looking elsewhere for software fun n games as there is no way in hell I will buy a game twice because the first copy I bought auto shut down because of a built in feature designed to do just that. Nor do I see why I should have to petition any games company to give me another 3 or 5 or 9 or whatever activation points again to get said shut down game running again.

EA do you really have to use this type of disc protection. I play different online and offline games from many different companys and this is the first time I have come across this Securom item. Apart from seeing some blurb on the news < TV > yonks ago about sony useing it on their music discs. Come on EA rethink your options. This system had bad press to start with at its release and from what I can see of the wiki posts on it has had quite a bit of bad press since. Why associate bad press with what looks like will be a good game surely the two should not mix ?

I dont mind a 10 day check. But what if you go to vacation or lose you intenet connection? Then you game won function next time...

[TheAesthete]

if you havent accessed the game for 10 days, it will just seek confirmations next time you log in. its not gonna stop working just because you havent used it.

[orifice]

And if you uninstall, it leaves the securom spyware behind so that EA can continue to spy on your hard drive.

[Marcolon]

Originally Posted by TheAesthete

if you havent accessed the game for 10 days, it will just seek confirmations next time you log in. its not gonna stop working just because you havent used it.

Ok thanks...

Originally Posted by orifice

And if you uninstall, it leaves the securom spyware behind so that EA can continue to spy on your hard drive.

Yea bad thing. Though i saw a thread /(cant remember wich) leading to remove it...

[Sporescore]

Guys guys guys Hopefully the security will be friendly, such as itunes, you have to have an authorised computer, but you can equally deauthorise that computer so u can still have a total of 5 authorisations i think that is all we can hope for, personally i don't mind these measures , as i only have 2 computers that will be able to effectively run spore and well if ur going on holidays unless u go for 3 weeks it will be fine but i agree 15days to a month would be better, and i hope they have thought through the effect this may have on their computers not just ours.

[orifice]

I managed to find this, but it may be sims specific.
How to get rid of SecuRom, NOW

[happdays]

If it really has the same 3 install DRM mass effect does, then I can't see a reason to buy the game.

I purchased mass effect, and without ever realizing it I wasted my 3 installs on trying out windows vista and going back to xp. Well no problem I thought, I found a FAQ which stated I only needed to contact EA to get a new install.

Heh.
The EA phone support in Denmark, well isn't. And it's almost been a month now since I tried reaching them through e-mail, and no answer. So I made a thread on the official mass effect forums, thinking I'd get some help there. But no.

Yep...

[JellyTiger]

I've spent the best part of £300 on TS2 and because of SecuRom 90% of the time the games won't play. I've tried removing the bloody thing, I've tried everything short of sacraficing goats but unless it's a complete reinstall (which takes a couple of hours not including backing up files and replacing them) or installing a new EP / Stuff pack the game won't work. If it is working and I dare go online using the option on the start up menu then I've stuffed the game. I'm loathe to even download a patch in case it stops the game from loading. It's rendered my game unreliable and pretty much unplayable. I don't want this to happen with Spore. I don't have the money to buy a game just to dust the cover then play a different game that's not so user-UNfriendly.
I appreciate that companies want to protect their interests and that there are people out there trying to help players overcome problems caused by this software but why do they have to pick a system that seems designed to frustrate the hell out of players. I don't want a game that requires me to spend hours online searching for a solution and more time trying to impliment that solution just so I can play it!

This has really knocked my enthusiasm for the game and made me rethink the whole thing. I want the game but I want to be able to play the game without having to jump through hoops. If Spore goes the way of the Sims I won't be buying EPs. *sigh*

[SuperAndy]

3 activations!? That is officially the stupidest thing ive ever heard! It is utterly ridiculous of ea to expect us to pay £40 for this, and after 3 installations, go out and spend ANOTHER £40 on a new copy... In fact, i think that spore is gonna lose a LOT of sales because of this. We buy, the game, i think we have the right to install it as much as we freakin want! Congrats ea... uve just screwed a perfectly good game....


(breathes heavily) ok thats my rant over.. whew i feel much better now...

[Raggs]

It's not 3 installations, it's 3 activations. You can install it on the same computer, with the same setup, as many times as you wish. But only install it on 3 different computers maximum. Unfortunatly this means if you update hardware/windows etc, it could easily count as a new computer.

[Malgor]

Well, like many others, I have been waiting for Spore for a long time - and have been really looking forward to it.

However, SecuROM, from experience, stinks. I honestly think that any forward-thimking customer-focussed company should employ people with with big sticks to 'adjust' the thinking of anyone who brings up SecuROM in a meeting.

That said, I could, perhaps, live with SecuROM, if I had to - I know my system well enough to combat its more adverse effects.

The '3 strikes, your out' thing though is a different matter. I have not pre-ordered Spore yet, as I want the Galactic Edition - but I will order it when it becomes available. When the game arrives, however, if it has this 3-activations lalalala, I will return it immediately, and demand my money back - which I am entitled to under my statutory rights. If I install the game, and play it, and later discover that it has only 3 activations, I will return it then and demand a full refund - even if it is a few years down the line - and I am fairly sure the office of fair trading will back me up. After all, if the game does not make it abundantly clear on the box or manual that you have limited activations, then the product is mis-sold.

I really hope (but seriously doubt) that EA will realise the stupidity of this before Spore's release, and never use SecuROM, or any system like it, on any product ever again.

[Sjones243]

Me and my mate also removed our pre-orders untill the game comes out and we can see what issuses and protection is used!

[Braidedheadman]

Originally Posted by Raggs

It's not 3 installations, it's 3 activations. You can install it on the same computer, with the same setup, as many times as you wish. But only install it on 3 different computers maximum. Unfortunatly this means if you update hardware/windows etc, it could easily count as a new computer.

What exactly is your point?

I hope it's not to suggest that this is in any way acceptable.

[happdays]

I don't see the reason behind the anti-piracy hazzle, I mean, what hasn't been cracked? It's a damn shame and all but lets be realistic about it, everything gets cracked so why bother your paying customers with a ton of problems?

That being said I can actually live with everything but the 3 activation/installation nonsense. Hand me the online check, I'm always connected to the Internet anyways and I've played plenty MMO's so I wouldn't mind logging in before playing the slightest. But the 3 install limit is nonsense, and come on, who doesn't reinstall windows at least once a year? That's one activation. :/

I've installed my two favorite games, Fallout and x-com somewhere near 50 times each, on different computers and windows installations. Imagine if they had the same activation limit. Who would I call? Not that contacting EA or Biorware has helped me with my Mass Effect actiavtions yet, but at least there is a support email I can get ignored by. :/

[flatfroggerx]

Originally Posted by PieJesu

Vista OS and XP OS both included an installation limit. Vista was limited to one install only too. Adobe also use this system. As do 3Ds Max.

Wrong for vista/XP, thats OEM versions, OEM versions SHOULD be shipped with Dells/HPs/etc, they have special keys and stuff to cater for them etc (im not going into full detail here). However an OEM version of windows is far cheaper than a retail, they are meant for computer businesses which build computers/service them/etc however many regular people who are upgrading their pc buy OEM versions because of the price, you get what you pay for.

Not to mention the biggest point here, windows is a FULL OPERATING SYSTEM, not a game. Also Securom and windows activate in totally different ways, driver updates can throw securom off, unlike windows, a graphics card change/new hardware can throw securom off, for windows it has to be a new motherboard/processor, etc.

Originally Posted by PieJesu

If EA have a similar support system then all is well. Who knows, they might be licensing the program to schools and releasing a corporate installation version allowing multiple installs specifically for the schools.

LOL, no, to EA a consumer is a consumer it doesnt matter where they are from. 1 game, 1 key, 3 activations.

Originally Posted by PieJesu

Whilst I agree that SecuRom is bad, you can't blame 'em for trying to stop the crackers. They do have a new level of security. ISPs in the UK are negotiating with companies and possibly going to monitor P2P usage and limit it. I indeed recieved an email from my ISP telling me that they will throttle down my p2p connection speed on torrents from various tracker websites.

Wrong again, Securom is bad, its wrong and its unfair, sure you cant blame them but this lalalala is the wrong way to do it, i mean come on YOU PUNISH THE HONEST CONSUMER, all it takes is a new set of drivers and bam you lose an activation, THERE IS NO REVOCATION.

The fact you comment on UK P2P is nonsense too, fact is UK networks are stretched, i know they are, ISPs like tiscali (to name one) will gladly shove as many people onto an exchange as they can, capping is something they use to even the load for the masses, its bull. Sure, now some ISPs have this thing with the BPI, but thats a different matter im not going into here again, their whole methodology and evidence is dodgy.

You buy the propaganda PieJesu, DRM is morally wrong, anyone with half a brain would realise this, PRO DRM people do not have a leg to stand on and they know it.


Guys, theres a big fat sticky at the top of this board dealing with copy protection and spore, here: Spore Copy Protection Q&A

Many questions/topics have already been covered there.

[orifice]

Of course there is some irony to be found here. I have a friend who does not have an internet connection and wanted to play this game. He would have bought it but now he's going to use a pirate version! On top of this, I know various people involved in hacking and they have taken this new securom to be some kind of personal challenge!
In short this copy protection is causing piracy! oh the irony is delicious!

[Titanx3]

In short this copy protection is causing piracy! oh the irony is delicious!

Not really, all piracy is caused by CP.

[Cyberfrog]

Some are pirates for the profit, others are pirates for the challenge, others are pirates for the excitement (e.g. as in not getting caught while they're videotaping a film), others are pirates because they believe products should be sold without restrictions on use... Some people pirate because they are poor and can't afford the real product, others pirate because it is so quick and easy to just go online and grab what you want... and so on. I don't see how piracy can be said to be caused by any one thing.

But with SecuROM and what not, EA isn't exactly making a positive contribution. I believe orifice is right. But chances are that this is a calculated risk, that they may actually believe that the additional profit from people buying the product a second time (e.g. because they never knew that they could have gotten a new activation if they had held on to a proof of purchase) will be more significant than any additional losses due to piracy. Pretty ridiculous if this is the case... talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

[JohnConnor101]

Agreed, not exactly conducive to goodwill - and I'll definitely be retaining my reciept!

BTW, I've had SCC installed for over 20 days and have logged in pretty much daily without recieving a 2nd demand for reconfirmation, despite getting a first. Do ypu think they've just missed me or that they've loosened up on this onerous condition across the board? (Only ever had to confirm once online with 'BioShock').

[flatfroggerx]

Originally Posted by Titanx3

In short this copy protection is causing piracy! oh the irony is delicious!

Not really, all piracy is caused by CP.

True not all piracy is caused by CP, but after farces with bioshock and mass effect they've converted people who would normally pay for those type games are now considering other routes. Some games don't use any protection yet sell tons anyway like sins of a solar empire, it has no protection at all.

The further CP gets the worst it gets for the consumer, there are a couple which do work pretty effectively like TAGES, i guess securom/sony would rather rootkit the world and do so at a discount price for EA.

[Wishbone77]

I think the real problem is (as in so many other businesses) that the decision-makers at EA are people who know nothing at all about how computers actually work. They are corporate suits who actually believe that piracy can be stopped in this way. They think about red and black numbers, and never about people. I'm sure it will come as a complete surprise to them that ordinary paying customers would object to the SecuROM abomination.

I suppose the argument goes something like this: "Ah, a new, more agressive copy protection system! Let's implement it immediately. Maybe this will stop piracy, even though the previous 367 systems didn't. 368th time is the charm, right?"

[Watashiii]

Originally Posted by flatfroggerx

Guys, theres a big fat sticky at the top of this board dealing with copy protection and spore, here: Spore Copy Protection Q&A

Many questions/topics have already been covered there.

Oh, you mean the one where they asked themselves three questions, answered them and then ignored anything asked by users? Yes, it's a wonderful topic, I enjoyed it a lot

[Wishbone77]

Originally Posted by Watashiii

Oh, you mean the one where they asked themselves three questions, answered them and then ignored anything asked by users? Yes, it's a wonderful topic, I enjoyed it a lot

QFT!