Official Spore Creature Creator Feedback Thread

[Baker011]

To make it easier to track all your feedback, could you please keep it to this thread. We really appreciate all your feedback and we do read and pass it on to the developers of the games.

[Deandria]

Is this the right place to make comments/suggestions about the forums too? It's really confusing that hyperlinks look the same as text... I have to hover my mouse about the page to find which bits are links. Could something please be done? Other parts of the EA forums don't have the same problem...

[Mugge]

What I'd like to see is a third "tab" on the top of coloring menu. Besides the single click full paint job and the three layer one.

I suspect that each layer as it is now is composed of a procedural for alpha, color and bump channel.

I'd like to be able to choose procedurals for alpha, color and bump separately. Then you'd be able to find an alpha channel that made the texture show up on the places you like, then choose how that area should be colored and bumped.

Throwing in sliders to change the seed for each procedural would make it even better. Sure it would take a lot of trial and error to make something really good, but it would be possible to make a lot of different designs and it wouldn't affect filesize or performance in any real way (that I can think of). And if you didn't care for this kind of control you could just use the tool as it is now.

This combined with better previews of the textures (like in older screenshots of the editor) and maybe having procedurals categorized (scales, feathers, hair, skin etc.) would help tremendously too.

Lastly the ability to choose attached parts and then color them individually would also make it easier to make what you really want.

Mugge

[Remora Wraith]

I think the problem with that Mugge is that it will change the creature creator data file structure which means re-programming the entire procedural system, I suspect, at least from my experience with procedural generation anyway.

I think the complexity meter is a bit hard to read, maybe I missed something but it should give you a number of units left when you mouse over it, it doesn't seem to for me, so either it's broken for me or not there at all.

[flixern]

Friend system on the Spore site. But I think you have allready seen that thread You can tell the developers of the game, that we want the water phase back hehe xD

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by Remora Wraith

I think the problem with that Mugge is that it will change the creature creator data file structure which means re-programming the entire procedural system, I suspect, at least from my experience with procedural generation anyway.

It would mean changes to the filesystem, but only to allow very few data to be added. Especially if not talking about the coloring of individual parts. If the different layers is indeed calculated as I was mentioning (which I can't know for sure), then I don't think it would need any major changes at all in the procedural generation, as they would already be generating the texture map this way, just not offering the user with the option to change all the variables.

Mugge

[Cyberfrog]

I would have liked two improvements:

1) Being able to more easily spot the differences between textures. Now you almost need to "test-apply" them to the creature one by one. At the very least, the textures should have good mouseOver-descriptions and/or be displayed in some kind of clear and explicit order (maybe have categories, so that if you e.g. want feathers on your creature you can easily find the relevant textures).

2) A way to place joints just along one axis. With all 3 axis at once, joints tend to end up... not quite where you intended, and you have to rotate the creature multiple times to try to get the join just where you wanted it. I love the simplicity of the SCC though, never could use a 3D modeller very adeptly, but I still would have liked single-axis movement of joints as an advanced option.

[Mezakin]

hurry up and forget about creature creator its torture! release the game early :P

[Faltorn]

I guess one way to stop the copiers from copying people's creatures by slightly changing something and re-saving is through the so called friends system that some guys here want so badly.

You could let players restrict the access to their creatures downloads to friends only and things like that... or to a specific group of friends... like a privilege system... so the players would only let people they believe wouldn't do anything bad download their creations.

And PLEASE EA guys... i haven't been able to play the cc demo yet! cause i get the "back to desktop" crash all the time and it doesn't even start up the game... please fix this... i'd really like to contribute more with the spore community but for that i have to try the game! So please help me and a lot other guys out there who can't play. Fix this...

well, if you want to help me I have a post about what i'e already tried... Here's the link.

[bruuut]

It will be easy if we know what creature there are be make in Trial and full vserien and the game

sorry about me bad english

[LilFurryOne]

A few things I would not mind seeing (hopefully not too far out there):

1) Being able to turn feet around backwards (along the ground plane).

2) Either more parts with more varied stats (bonuses) or the ability to have "details" that gives bonuses for more stats than currently available -- as well as penalties. This to stop having to pick mouth X to be a good singer and foot Y to be a good dancer, as well as being able to take away, say, jump from a colossus and sprinting from a clumsy creature, and so on and so forth.

3) Being able to change to voice. So few sounds (within a group) makes all sound similar. Either being able to change pitch or to "plug in" a new set (user defined or not).

Thanks for reading, and for making Spore!

[Mezakin]

Originally Posted by Faltorn

I guess one way to stop the copiers from copying people's creatures by slightly changing something and re-saving is through the so called friends system that some guys here want so badly.

You could let players restrict the access to their creatures downloads to friends only and things like that... or to a specific group of friends... like a privilege system... so the players would only let people they believe wouldn't do anything bad download their creations.

And PLEASE EA guys... i haven't been able to play the cc demo yet! cause i get the "back to desktop" crash all the time and it doesn't even start up the game... please fix this... i'd really like to contribute more with the spore community but for that i have to try the game! So please help me and a lot other guys out there who can't play. Fix this...

well, if you want to help me I have a post about what i'e already tried... Here's the link.

the friend idea is cool but the problem is, i dont think every one will wanna have friends all the time just for the sake of download access to thier creations.

i was thinking your idea of a friends list where friends get ulimited access to your creations and a "request download" system for any one else where you see something you like, you request to download it. then once the creator accepts you get mail saying so.

but to be perfectly honest is there any point in getting all this uptight out creativity and theft of ideas? when the game launchers your creations will be sent world wide any way. so millions of people will be playing them to start with and do the same.

[Faltorn]

Originally Posted by LilFurryOne

A few things I would not mind seeing (hopefully not too far out there):

1) Being able to turn feet around backwards (along the ground plane).

2) Either more parts with more varied stats (bonuses) or the ability to have "details" that gives bonuses for more stats than currently available -- as well as penalties. This to stop having to pick mouth X to be a good singer and foot Y to be a good dancer, as well as being able to take away, say, jump from a colossus and sprinting from a clumsy creature, and so on and so forth.

3) Being able to change to voice. So few sounds (within a group) makes all sound similar. Either being able to change pitch or to "plug in" a new set (user defined or not).

Thanks for reading, and for making Spore!

Good suggestions...

particularly the second one.. i see where you're going... cause in a while, for the sake of good survival of creatures late in the game, all the creatures will look alike cause everybody will want to have the best jump foot... the best singing mouth... the best attacking claw...

[Remora Wraith]

Originally Posted by Mugge

It would mean changes to the filesystem, but only to allow very few data to be added. Especially if not talking about the coloring of individual parts. If the different layers is indeed calculated as I was mentioning (which I can't know for sure), then I don't think it would need any major changes at all in the procedural generation, as they would already be generating the texture map this way, just not offering the user with the option to change all the variables.

Mugge

Maybe, but going on my experience with procedural generation the seeds for each texture so to speak are hard coded, thus meaning no data needs to be stored for them just which is being used and in what colour. The game then uses this with it's seeds to create the texture, if you add the sliders you then need to store all the variable data for each slider, you also need to process this data and perform these modification calculations on the seed data. I mean I'm not massively experienced with procedural generation but this is how I produced textures for my procedurally generated trees and it was surprisingly complicated even though it sounds simple.

[CreepyD]

Away from the texturing theme going on..
Ofcourse we can't be sure how much the stats afect things yet so this may be irrelevant.. but 2 points..
point 1 ; 5 max for each stat seems a little low?
point 2 ; Something that has +5 this, should at least have -3 something else.

I think if point 2 is implemented, then 10 or even 15 could be the max, allowing you to specialise on 1-2 stats only.
At the mo you can just keep adding parts all over the place to make your creature better and better, I don't think there will be enough variety stats-wise.

[VertMorta]

I dont know if this may end up correct but surely brainpower adds to complexity so you need X budget for brains

example 1

Snuffletest singer = 5 singing 5 charm not much offence or any added armour, minimum speed + 80% possible brains

Megadumbhard health 50 max attack loadsa armour max speed and flight oops where are the brains (outa budget)

thats how I imagine it

so the player has to ask themself "hmm better legs a weapon or brains for progression" each time they upgrade

[Wishbone77]

I'm not good at being brief, so here's my lengthy (first) contribution to this thread.

Better textures:
Decals might work, as a predefined set, like the current textures, since that would require only the number of the decal to be included in the creature data. Colour, scaling, rotation and placement could all use the existing data encodings for such things. Mind you, it would naturally add to a creature's complexity factor, just like adding more limbs, since there is a natural limit to how much information you can encode into the alpha channel of a 128*128 PNG file. Of course, I'm just saying decals might be possible. I'm not sure it's a good idea.

There are lots of ways to make procedurally generated textures, with a very small data footprint. Hopefully, some of them will be implemented. But for starters, having better pre-defined textures would do. Lots of the texture options in the two upper layers seem completely superfluous to me.
"Look, this one adds colour to the shins. Oh, and this one adds colour to the shins. And look, this one adds colour to the shins, and slighty up the sides. Hey, and this one adds colour to the shins."
Anybody else had this thought? At least give us one that only colours only the underside of the creature, and maybe one that colours the inside of the limbs in addition to that. Those are the most common colour differences in all animals, real or imaginary.

Arm & leg operations:
The problem here is that pulling at a joint doesn't just rotate the joint, it stretches the limb as well. I've tried that myself, trying frantically to switch angles and moving a joint to get it right, only to find that not only had it swung the limb the 5 degrees I wanted, it had also stretched it 2 feet directly away from me. And it was damn near impossible to get it to shrink again. In the end, I removed that limb and started over.

What you could do was to remove the stretching function from the joint pulling function, and instead scale the length of limbs by pointing at the limb and using the scroll wheel. The wheel isn't used for anything on limbs right now, and since it IS used to scale the thickness of joints, I think it would be quite intuitive.

Another thing which might work was to restrict the movement of the joint to the plane of the camera. This would ensure that a limb didn't suddenly extend away from you, even though you were only trying to move it sideways.

General rotation:
It would be nice to be able to rotate pretty much anything, especially feet.

Objects "jumping" suddenly:
This is most noticable when you place objects along the spine, I think. You finally get it right, one fin, lined up perfectly and scaled the way you want it, then suddenly, for no discernible reason, it splits into two and rotates to be perpendicular to the spine in opposite directions.

Objects don't follow the body:
My experience is that objects that are too wide in any direction along their base, don't act properly when animated. The body flexes, but objects like fins don't. They're simply attached at the center point on their base, which means that when your creature moves, the edges of the object (fin, whatever) will often rise clear of the body.

Comments:
It would be nice to be able to leave a comment on somebody's profile, as well as on a specific creature.

[Screature]

I would simply like to see that size matters!
At the moment, a 6 foot creature can have the same stats as a creature identical in every way, but scaled down to 1 foot tall.
An elephant with no tusks should have a higher charge stat than a mouse with a few horns.
A gorilla with thick arms and a lot of weight should be stronger and do more damage with a punch than a chipmunk with the same graspers.
A bigger creature should have more health than a smaller creature, in general.

On another note, when I build a small turtle, I don't wish to see it sprint across the screen like it's on a caffeine high! Just because a creature is smaller doesn't mean it's legs have to speed up!

[Asmayus]

It would be nice to be able to join the big spiny-sail-fins (actual name escapes me XD) together, so that instead of about eight smaller ones bouncing around the place you've one long one that remains stuck to the body.

Anything on the spine flips its orientation pretty much at random if you edit the spine.

Same problem when you're trying to angle objects with the orientation ball.

Limbs - See what Wishbone77 says

Size of creature has no bearing on it's performance. So giants are just as powerful as creatures a quarter of their height. It doesn't seem very realistic. Big creatures should have more health, but lower speed, sneak, etc, for example.

It's way too easy to build uber-powerful creatures with no disadvantages.

A choice between the texture of a part and its performance would be awesome -no one wants a substandard arm/leg/mouth etc, regardless of how good the 'lower level' ones look. (This ties in with my above point -the most powerful creations will have a similar selection of parts)
So everyone's creations will use the same 'good' parts over and over again.

Just my 2c
Great game, keep up the good work!!

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by Remora Wraith

Maybe, but going on my experience with procedural generation the seeds for each texture so to speak are hard coded, thus meaning no data needs to be stored for them just which is being used and in what colour. The game then uses this with it's seeds to create the texture, if you add the sliders you then need to store all the variable data for each slider, you also need to process this data and perform these modification calculations on the seed data.

Yes, you'd have to store these new seeds in the file. But it's only a integer variable and having three channels (alpha, color and bump) on three layers will be nine variables. That and having to store which actual formula was used for three channels instead of just one for each layer. It would add little to the filesize, but whether it's too late in the process to add this I couldn't know.

Having to do the calculations again should not pose a problem, as far as I know, it already have to do all the calculations now as well.

I mean I'm not massively experienced with procedural generation but this is how I produced textures for my procedurally generated trees and it was surprisingly complicated even though it sounds simple.

Me neither, though I've also used procedural textures both in Lightwave and later Maya. But I'm no expert, so this is just my take on this.

Mugge

[Asmayus]

Oh yeah, I knew there was something else -- Necks and tails. Big creature = tiny tail/no neck. I stick a single arm on the torso for a neck and leave the tail small. I'd love it if you could build big creatures with tails and necks in proportion to their bodies! Tapering out to a point, I mean.

cheers,
-Asmayus

[Deandria]

Can you please sticky my thread: http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/spore-creature-creator-discussion/321714-how-recover-lost-creatures-please-sticky.html

It's a common problem that is often asked and having a sticky about it would help a lot of people.

[Remora Wraith]

Originally Posted by Mugge

Yes, you'd have to store these new seeds in the file. But it's only a integer variable and having three channels (alpha, color and bump) on three layers will be nine variables. That and having to store which actual formula was used for three channels instead of just one for each layer. It would add little to the filesize, but whether it's too late in the process to add this I couldn't know.

Yeah it's only a small variable but my understanding of the spore creature file data structure is that it's very fragile, which is why you get problems with creatures not loading or becoming corrupted, even though it is only a small change it could case more problems.

Also I don't think it is as simple as just storing an integer I suspect it is a float as most of my experience with coding Alpha channels and colour variables the values are between 0 and 1 not 0 and 100 or 0 and 255 however I've only used OpenGL, DirectX may be different but I have a feeling it's not.

Originally Posted by Mugge

Having to do the calculations again should not pose a problem, as far as I know, it already have to do all the calculations now as well.
Me neither, though I've also used procedural textures both in Lightwave and later Maya. But I'm no expert, so this is just my take on this.

Mugge

As I said before I tried to make procedural trees using OpenGL and modifying textures is quite tricky, it's not so simple as just an offset of your seed, you have to recalculate the entire map again, and doing that in real-time for each frame would be quite taxing when you consider the grand scheme of the entire game as well.

I could be wrong I'm only speaking from my experience I don't know how Spore's textures work.

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by Remora Wraith

Also I don't think it is as simple as just storing an integer I suspect it is a float as most of my experience with coding Alpha channels and colour variables the values are between 0 and 1 not 0 and 100 or 0 and 255 however I've only used OpenGL, DirectX may be different but I have a feeling it's not.

Yes, the actual seed could be from -1 to 1 or from 0 to 1e+100 or whatever, depending on the individual formulas used. But the slider would give so many increments. Maybe 256 and it would be stored in a byte then or maybe two bytes for finer control. The game would convert that value to whatever the formula in question needs as a seed.

As I said before I tried to make procedural trees using OpenGL and modifying textures is quite tricky, it's not so simple as just an offset of your seed, you have to recalculate the entire map again, and doing that in real-time for each frame would be quite taxing when you consider the grand scheme of the entire game as well.

The entire map is needed to be calculated each time now I would think. That's what makes them procedural. Had they been hardcoded into the software, it would just be the way they made them initially. That way they would have a hard time making a decent bitmap that would wrap nicely around every kind of form we come up with. The maps are probably calculated when a creature is loaded, then kept in memory as a bitmap. I could be wrong too.

I could be wrong I'm only speaking from my experience I don't know how Spore's textures work.

And yet you continue to try to shoot down my idea A lot of people want more coloring control. I don't think free-paint or decals is realistic as others would like, so I suggested something that I think might be doable. Whether it is or isn't is less important in this thread. It's simply my suggestion.

Instead of questioning the technical side to this, it's more interesting whether people wants this feature or not, or has other ideas how to implement more coloring options.

Mugge

[Anto103]

How about e-mail verification problems getting fixed? And maybe something that will stop people from claiming that your work is theirs?