The Sims 3 and Copy Protection

[salaynia]

[quote=Rohannnn;7355743]

Unless I've missed something, SecuROM will still be in The Sims 3 unfortunately.
What won't be there is the system where you have to connect to the internet to install/play, instead just the old disk-checking version of SecuROM that was with the later Sims 2 EPs.
At least if SecuROM does mess things up you will be able to reinstall without worrying about install limits. That was people's main concern before this news was released.

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I dont want to continue reinstalling the game you should be able to install once and thats it.
Can someone just confirm why we need securom in a nut shell please and is it going to be in Sims 3?.

Unfortunately I wont be getting the game if this is the case. Its just not compatible with my computer and sod reinstalling again and again and again, and I know I would have to because there will be glitches in the sims 3. I just don't think its worth it.

[jonneymendoza]

LOL securom works on everyones machine. if you have a dodgy CD/DVD emulator software then it wont work mate

[salaynia]

Originally Posted by jonneymendoza

lol securom works on everyones machine. If you have a dodgy cd/dvd emulator software then it wont work mate

dodgy?????????????????????

[Mirelly9]

Just a comment by way of clarification.

Rod Humble does not say there will be no SecuROM. Merely that the the copy-protection will not require online access. This of course is to be welcomed. I've said many times that if your computer chokes on SecuROM then it is unlikely to be modern enough to play with TS3 ... or if that is not true, then your computer has something installed which is more appropriately used for piratical purposes. I have never had any problem with mainstream audio and video using plain old Windows Media Player, Real Player and Adobe Flash Player ... with Quicktime subsisting unloaded in reserve for media that insists on it. I have never needed anything else but Windows Media Player to burn CDs, DVDs, data discs, video disc, MP3 discs. Anyone who can't is using an ancient or substandard optical drive and/or operating system.

Some of the stuff Microsoft bundles with Windows is disposable (for example I use a third party firewall, browser, mail client, virus and spam filters) but adding third party software merely to handle audio-visual media is -- in opinion -- crackers.

[salaynia]

Thanks for this information bro.......


'No, its not on the PC at all. Securom is something they put on the DVD's to make it really hard for you to copy them.
Its very unlikely (probably impossible) for it to screw up your machine.

It only causes problems when the drive doesn't like the protection and refuses to run disks that are okay. This is rare though.
Some securom versions ask for codes that are written on the box or from the manual and the codes can sometimes be wrong as well.

Its main problem is that it is a pain in the *** and effectively makes it awkward for people who have paid for original disks.'


Looks like I will be buying Sims 3

Oh p.s. I dont use dodgy software and its wrong for you to presume I do.

[Rohannnn]

Originally Posted by Mirelly9

I've said many times that if your computer chokes on SecuROM then it is unlikely to be modern enough to play with TS3 ... or if that is not true, then your computer has something installed which is more appropriately used for piratical purposes.

Ironically, that isn't the case as far as I understand it.
If you are running so-called "dodgy" software that's so old and useless that SecuROM actually detects it, SecuROM will simply refuse to work at all and display an error message, rather than cause these problems people seem to be experiencing.

I used to think exactly the same as you do until one day I installed a SecuROM protected game (not Sims 2, I haven't got recent enough EP), and I had problems exactly as other people describe. Suddenly all my CD/DVD drives won't load discs, display an error when trying to open them in My Computer, CPU usage at almost constant 100% and generally the whole computer considerably slowed down and acting like it had been infected with a pretty badly-written virus.

It turned out that Windows had forced my drives into PIO mode (rather than DMA), once I deleted the right registry key to force them back, everything worked fine again. I'm pretty sure SecuROM was the cause of the whole problem since it started when a SecuROM disc was in the drive. I haven't had any problems since.

I do accept that a lot of the problems people are reporting to do with SecuROM and other copy protection are exaggerated, or caused by other stuff, but I don't think all of the problems are, at least mine wasn't.

Originally Posted by Mirelly9

I have never had any problem with mainstream audio and video using plain old Windows Media Player, Real Player and Adobe Flash Player ... with Quicktime subsisting unloaded in reserve for media that insists on it. I have never needed anything else but Windows Media Player to burn CDs, DVDs, data discs, video disc, MP3 discs. Anyone who can't is using an ancient or substandard optical drive and/or operating system.

You are lucky if those applications provide everything you need. WMP for example, for me, doesn't decode 5.1 sound on DVDs properly, won't play back a lot of my recorded TV, deinterlaces the stuff it can play horribly and can't burn CD/DVD images or make DVD video discs. So I use, amongst other stuff, Nero, iTunes and mpc-hc. I'm not sure what this has to do with copy protection though

[jonneymendoza]

Originally Posted by salaynia

Thanks for this information bro.......


'No, its not on the PC at all. Securom is something they put on the DVD's to make it really hard for you to copy them.
Its very unlikely (probably impossible) for it to screw up your machine.

It only causes problems when the drive doesn't like the protection and refuses to run disks that are okay. This is rare though.
Some securom versions ask for codes that are written on the box or from the manual and the codes can sometimes be wrong as well.

Its main problem is that it is a pain in the *** and effectively makes it awkward for people who have paid for original disks.'


Looks like I will be buying Sims 3

Oh p.s. I dont use dodgy software and its wrong for you to presume I do.

stop using dodgy stuff

[salaynia]

Originally Posted by Rohannnn;

Ironically, that isn't the case as far as I understand it.
If you are running so-called "dodgy" software that's so old and useless that SecuROM actually detects it, SecuROM will simply refuse to work at all and display an error message, rather than cause these problems people seem to be experiencing.

I used to think exactly the same as you do until one day I installed a SecuROM protected game (not Sims 2, I haven't got recent enough EP), and I had problems exactly as other people describe. Suddenly all my CD/DVD drives won't load discs, display an error when trying to open them in My Computer, CPU usage at almost constant 100% and generally the whole computer considerably slowed down and acting like it had been infected with a pretty badly-written virus.

Thanks for your info Rohannnn and Im glad you were able to sort it out.

[Markt75]

Wow, I'm shocked and very happy about this, maybe this is proof that even big companies like EA do listen.

I think this is a brave decision but also the correct one. I remember the trouble that kicked off with Spore and SecuROM, I was one of those involved in the debate and really hated the whole limited activations thing. I remember at the time a number of people who either thought we should shut up, or accused us of being pirates, or some who said we would get nowhere by complaining and why would we ever need to install more than 3 times anyway.

Well, hopefully this just goes to show that if enough people voice their concerns on an issue, then a company, even one as big as EA, can be encouraged to change direction. I just hope that this only the first step on the road to EA completely dumping limited activations across all their titles. The Sims isn't really my type of game, but I'll be sure to purchase a copy when it's released just to show my support for this decision.

ohh, you even made the BBC news with this

BBC NEWS | Technology | EA 'dumps DRM' for next Sims game

Well played EA. (Hmmm, might have to change my sig at this rate )

[LoK0v0]

rohannnn... you have said all i wanted to say.
so drm is lame

[MaDMaT824]

Originally Posted by jonneymendoza

LOL securom works on everyones machine. if you have a dodgy CD/DVD emulator software then it wont work mate

Nah this is not true - securom errors are complicated, and even when you have brand new pc, with only win installed you can still have them.

Originally Posted by Markt75

Wow, I'm shocked and very happy about this, maybe this is proof that even big companies like EA do listen.

EA listen? Stop joking They was sued for securom faults by some users and they probably was in losing position so they decided to drop of sercurom ( probably only the lastet version where you was forced to register online and have only 3/5 register attempts). Securom have many versions and i am sure that sims 3 will have it, but only for dvd and serial number check's.

[Robalton]

I think they've learned their lesson with Spore and all the other DRM related Fiascos. Good on you EA. this has made me want to buy the game even more.

[ImagineCookies]

So in layman's terms, you should have no trouble with sims 3 if you've had no trouble with the later eps such as apt life?

[Rohannnn]

Originally Posted by ImagineCookies

So in layman's terms, you should have no trouble with sims 3 if you've had no trouble with the later eps such as apt life?

Yes, as far as I'm aware, Sims 3 will use the same copy protection (SecuROM) as later Sims 2 EPs did like apartment life.

[Anthony]

Yeah, and there was nothing wrong with them. They worked perfectly fine, and I think The Sims 3 will be just the same.

[VeteranGamer27]

Originally Posted by Rohannnn

Yes, as far as I'm aware, Sims 3 will use the same copy protection (SecuROM) as later Sims 2 EPs did like apartment life.

I hope they are not putting securom on sims 3, I have pre-ordered sims 3, because from the announcement I understood it would not be on there. I am an IT professional and build my own and friends PCs. I have experienced problems with securom. It installs in a place EA should not be installing software to, it interferes with the way the pc talks to the CD/DVD drive. Where there are bugs in securom or in your drivers it can cause problems that you would not otherwise experience.
This has nothing to do with “dodgy” software.
Installing securom in the UK without the PC owners permission is probably illegal under laws to protect people from hackers. In the US I believe there are class action suites against EA under similar laws.
Hopefully EA have learned that taking illegal action against people who buy their products is not the best way to protect their income stream and intellectual property.

[Jan_831]

The way I understand it there will be no SecuROM in The Sims 3. They are using the same copyright protection that was used for The Sims 2 base game and EP's prior to the addition of SecuROM. A serial key will now be used. I think they started using SecuROM with the Bon Voyage expansion. There are class action lawsuits agains EA in the US because of SecuROM.

[Rohannnn]

Originally Posted by Jan_831

The way I understand it there will be no SecuROM in The Sims 3. They are using the same copyright protection that was used for The Sims 2 base game and EP's prior to the addition of SecuROM. A serial key will now be used. I think they started using SecuROM with the Bon Voyage expansion. There are class action lawsuits agains EA in the US because of SecuROM.

Do you have a source for this? It would be great if it was true. However, in every annoucement made by EA that I've read, including the one mentioned in the first post, EA does not state what copy protection they've chosen.

Because of all of the bad reputation of SecuROM, you'd think that they'd take the opportunity to say that they weren't using SecuROM if that's how things have been decided.

Instead they say this:

The game will have disc-based copy protection – there is a Serial Code just like The Sims 2. To play the game there will not be any online authentication needed.

*my emphasis
which definitely leaves the possibility for SecuROM to be present like it was in the later EPs. Remember that the later EPs definitely did have serial codes, and the version of SecuROM they were using definitely falls under the definition "disc-based copy protection".

Originally Posted by VeteranGamer27

I hope they are not putting securom on sims 3, I have pre-ordered sims 3, because from the announcement I understood it would not be on there. I am an IT professional and build my own and friends PCs. I have experienced problems with securom. It installs in a place EA should not be installing software to, it interferes with the way the pc talks to the CD/DVD drive. Where there are bugs in securom or in your drivers it can cause problems that you would not otherwise experience.
This has nothing to do with “dodgy” software.

I agree with everything you've said, I'm sure most people do.
EA didn't design SecuROM, it's a Sony product, so really Sony/SecuROM as a company are to blame for how invasively written the software is. Although of course it's EAs responsibility in the end since they choose to include the software and know exactly how it works.

As far as I understand it, what happens is this:
1. EA executives decide that the game must have copy protection (despite that fact that it is almost always cracked within 24 hours of game release... leaving only legitimate buyers inconvenienced...).
2. EA looks for a company offering copy protection solution. There are several options out there, e.g. Safedisc like with TS2 base game, or SecuROM as with later TS2 EPs. They may well just look for the cheapest, since they are all just as (in)effective.
3. Contract made with the copy protection company. Presumably EA pays either a fixed cost or a cost per disc to include the copy protection.
4. Co-operation between the game developers and copy protection company to modify the game executable code to include copy protection code.

Originally Posted by VeteranGamer27

Installing securom in the UK without the PC owners permission is probably illegal under laws to protect people from hackers. In the US I believe there are class action suites against EA under similar laws.
Hopefully EA have learned that taking illegal action against people who buy their products is not the best way to protect their income stream and intellectual property.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything illegal about it. It states that copy protection is used on the disc case (plus most websites you can buy the game from). EA/SecuROM could argue that copy protection software is almost installed like it is by definition, that the only way to have a chance of preventing copying is to install the software in the they way they do.

[Jan_831]

[quote=Rohannnn;7575545]Do you have a source for this? It would be great if it was true. However, in every annoucement made by EA that I've read, including the one mentioned in the first post, EA does not state what copy protection they've chosen.

Because of all of the bad reputation of SecuROM, you'd think that they'd take the opportunity to say that they weren't using SecuROM if that's how things have been decided.

Instead they say this:
*my emphasis
which definitely leaves the possibility for SecuROM to be present like it was in the later EPs. Remember that the later EPs definitely did have serial codes, and the version of SecuROM they were using definitely falls under the definition "disc-based copy protection".

I have read that too which was why I researched it. I can give you two sources and more if you want them.
http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2009/04/01/the-sims-3-serial-keys-used-for-copy-protection-not-drm.htm

http://www.simprograms.com/2009/03/page/2/

EDIT: I just realized that the first one just quotes what Rod Humble said in his press release, the second one will link you to the sims 2 bbs where one of the moderators clarified his statement and confirmed that there will be no DRM. I read a lot and have read a lot on this issue, but I will go through my web history and link you to other sources if you would like me to.

[Hollieangel4]

Originally Posted by Rohannnn

Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything illegal about it. It states that copy protection is used on the disc case (plus most websites you can buy the game from). EA/SecuROM could argue that copy protection software is almost installed like it is by definition, that the only way to have a chance of preventing copying is to install the software in the they way they do.

Could you please point out where on the disc case it states this? I am looking at my Apartment Life Box and it does not state this. At all.

Unless Im utterly blind and cannot read? *shrug* (Quite possible for the time, actually! lol)

[Rohannnn]

Originally Posted by Jan_831

EDIT: I just realized that the first one just quotes what Rod Humble said in his press release, the second one will link you to the sims 2 bbs where one of the moderators clarified his statement and confirmed that there will be no DRM. I read a lot and have read a lot on this issue, but I will go through my web history and link you to other sources if you would like me to.

Right, but "no DRM" as your links say certainly doesn't mean "no SecuROM", unfortunately.

DRM is a bit of a vague term but typically it's applied to things like music downloads that will only play on a certain number of PCs or burn to a certain number of discs, movies that you can only watch a certain number of times, and of course, games like Spore that could only be installed on a limited number of PCs.

I couldn't find anything to suggest the type of "disc-based" copy protection they've chosen, certainly nothing suggesting that it's not going to be SecuROM again.

Putting SecuROM into TS3 doesn't mean any of the DRM restrictions mentioned above - you can technically install on as many PCs as you like (except obviously you need the disc inserted to run it).

Originally Posted by Hollieangel4

Could you please point out where on the disc case it states this? I am looking at my Apartment Life Box and it does not state this. At all.

Unless Im utterly blind and cannot read? *shrug* (Quite possible for the time, actually! lol)

On the back of my Pets disc case, which is the latest EP I have, it states in small print: "Notice: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-ROM, DVD-RW and virtual drives."

[Hollieangel4]

Originally Posted by Rohannnn

On the back of my Pets disc case, which is the latest EP I have, it states in small print: "Notice: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-ROM, DVD-RW and virtual drives."

Nope, I have checked my Pets, Bon Voyage, Seasons, Freetime AND Apartment Life and none of them have such a disclaimer.

What country are you in? Might make a difference? - LOL, just read your location, so ignore this :P How odd that it is so different even within the same country then *ponders*

EDIT:
Ok, so I just checked in the BOOKLET for Pets (as I have just put the others away and cannot be bothered to get them back out) and it has it at the very back, under "Trouble shooting: Problems Installing the game/dectecting the disc".
Fair enough, they "cover their behinds", however, by not having this clearly stated on the CASE, or in the FRONT of the book, it can be used against them. Why would a person read the troubleshooting guide BEFORE attempting to install and/or play the game? o_O

*Note, CAPS used as too tired to bother with bold/underlined. No shouting meant.

[Jan_831]

This looks like it says no SecuROM to me....

MaxiodHydra updated her previous post letting users know the fact that not only TS3 (retail disc) will NOT feature SecuROM, but the EA Download Manager will also NOT feature SecuROM.

After reading the letter from Rod, many of you had questions about SecuROM. I’ve taken your concerns to our management team and can confirm that SecuROM will not be included in The Sims 3 disc or in the EA Download Manager (software needed to install patches and access The Sims 3 Store).

[Rohannnn]

Originally Posted by Hollieangel4

Nope, I have checked my Pets, Bon Voyage, Seasons, Freetime AND Apartment Life and none of them have such a disclaimer.

What country are you in? Might make a difference?

UK.

I should point out the text is tiny, smaller than I remembered anyway, it's a single line underneath a load of other small print which is under all of the minimum specs.

Actually, ignore that, I've just found a site with box images and the USA versions don't have the text or even the minimum specs at all. Have a look here, e.g. this (US) vs this (UK).

Originally Posted by Jan_831

This looks like it says no SecuROM to me....

MaxiodHydra updated her previous post letting users know the fact that not only TS3 (retail disc) will NOT feature SecuROM, but the EA Download Manager will also NOT feature SecuROM.

After reading the letter from Rod, many of you had questions about SecuROM. I’ve taken your concerns to our management team and can confirm that SecuROM will not be included in The Sims 3 disc or in the EA Download Manager (software needed to install patches and access The Sims 3 Store).

Ahh that's good news, looks like you are right then
Unless of course things have got mixed up within EA and they think "SecuROM" now only means the online activation version. But that's unlikely.

Presumably they haven't got rid of copy protection altogether (in fact we know they haven't from the other quotes), so it will be interesting to see which they choose instead. Presumably it will be back to Safedisc again. Oh well, at least that's better than SecuROM.

[Hollieangel4]

Originally Posted by Rohannnn

I should point out the text is tiny, smaller than I remembered anyway, it's a single line underneath a load of other small print which is under all of the minimum specs.

OK, I have to apologise. I checked (again! 1am and all that ) and it IS there on Seasons and Pets. The text looks to be 1px smaller than the "supported video cards" info so not really a big difference.
How odd I cannot seem to find it on the others though - and how I missed it when looking about 5 times just now! *palmforehead*

If I didn't have those two though (being obsessed, I obviously do!) I wouldn't have it on the case though. How strange....
They are all PC-DVDs too and should all contain the software as it started at Bon Voyage, didn't it?