Big Four To Feel Wind Of European Cup Challenge - Page 2

The Masterpiece · 08-12-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILCaesar

We deserved our win. If we didn't, some other team would've been in our spot. I find it farcical that a team that wins against the odds suddenly doesn't deserve it. If our team didn't deserve it, another team should've stepped up and won against us to prevent it.

some tryed to stop us but no1 succeeded at it as we ruled the 2nd legs

Scuba Steve · 08-12-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILCaesar

We deserved our win. If we didn't, some other team would've been in our spot. I find it farcical that a team that wins against the odds suddenly doesn't deserve it. If our team didn't deserve it, another team should've stepped up and won against us to prevent it.

He is not saying that you did not deserve to win the trophy.

But he brings up a good point. Just because you are the CL winners, it should not mean you are the Champions of Europe. Those two are good examples. Same with Arsenal in 2006 if they had won it. That takes nothing away from the achievement itself though.

ILCaesar · 08-12-2008, 06:56 PM

If you win, you deserve it because you got there and you rose to the occasion. That's my opinion.

Scuba Steve · 08-12-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILCaesar

If you win, you deserve it because you got there and you rose to the occasion. That's my opinion.

Right, and I dont think you can say otherwise. If you win a trophy, you definitely deserve it.

The Masterpiece · 08-12-2008, 07:03 PM

some focus on the CL more, some on the domestic league, since we have been such a success in European football we tend to focus more on the CL thus finishing 4th or so in serie a. Still winning the European Champions league makes u the best in Europe IMO cuz it pits best teams together and u can't expect to get far in it if u only win the league or something

ImperialGendarme · 08-12-2008, 07:20 PM

But teams can get lucky draws and wins (Liverpool) in the CL, they finished 5th in the league in the season they won the CL, how did that make them the best team in Europe when they couldn't qualify for CL spot via the league?

The Masterpiece · 08-12-2008, 07:26 PM

beating the other top teams in Europe make u.

Liverpool havn't won the Premier League for 18 years

but they are still the most succesful "English" team in Europe. Chelsae and Manure might dominate the Premiership but that still doesn't mean they are the best in europe

ImperialGendarme · 08-12-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDog

beating the other top teams in Europe make u.

Liverpool havn't won the Premier League for 18 years

but they are still the most succesful "English" team in Europe. Chelsae and Manure might dominate the Premiership but that still doesn't mean they are the best in europe

Man Utd won both premier league and CL means they are the best in Europe.

ForeverBlue'86 · 08-12-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILCaesar

If you win, you deserve it because you got there and you rose to the occasion. That's my opinion.

In that case - AC Milan shouldn't have even been in the competition in the first place, previous season before that they were 20 odd points off top spot.

When Liverpool won the Champions League in 2005, they finished 5th, 37 points off the Premiership winners Chelsea. When AC Milan did it in 2007, they finished 4th, 36 points off Serie A winners Inter Milan... so, if they finish anywhere but first in their domestic league (Let alone being some 40 odd points off it), how can they rightly claim to be European Champions... you savvy?

Put it into a bit of perspective, the previous season before they both won their trophies, Liverpool finished 4th in 03/04 and AC Milan finished 3rd in 05/06... sorry, but if the trophy was true to it's title, they shouldn't have been anywhere near it.

ILCaesar · 08-12-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

In that case - AC Milan shouldn't have even been in the competition in the first place, previous season before that they were 20 odd points off top spot.

When Liverpool won the Champions League in 2005, they finished 5th, 37 points off the Premiership winners Chelsea. When AC Milan did it in 2007, they finished 4th, 36 points off Serie A winners Inter Milan... so, if they finish anywhere but first in their domestic league (Let alone being some 40 odd points off it), how can they rightly claim to be European Champions... you savvy?

Put it into a bit of perspective, the previous season before they both won their trophies, Liverpool finished 4th in 03/04 and AC Milan finished 3rd in 05/06... sorry, but if the trophy was true to it's title, they shouldn't have been anywhere near it.

We were still 4th. What's your point? We qualified, we won. Get over it. You can go on and on and on about it, but at the end of the day, we still won. We fought our way to the final and if Inter/whatever else teams were truly better, they'd have been there instead of us.

COYS · 08-12-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokiegooner

He is not saying that you did not deserve to win the trophy.

But he brings up a good point. Just because you are the CL winners, it should not mean you are the Champions of Europe. Those two are good examples. Same with Arsenal in 2006 if they had won it. That takes nothing away from the achievement itself though.

Good post.

Just because a team wins the Champions League dosen't mean that they didn't deserve to win the competition.

I do think it's debatable whether they can be considered 'Champions of Europe' or not though.

10Totti10 · 08-12-2008, 08:45 PM

Here we go again

English is great, england is the best at everything.....

Scouser_Dave · 08-12-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10Totti10

Here we go again

English is great, england is the best at everything.....

The Champions League final doesn't lie

dmp1887 · 08-12-2008, 08:54 PM

IF they want new teams in it why dont they just reduce the prize money considerably - which is a major factor why the old firm in scotland always get into it! probaby the same in england too

The Masterpiece · 08-12-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImperialGendarme

Man Utd won both premier league and CL means they are the best in Europe.

It does yes but only at the moment

The Masterpiece · 08-12-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImperialGendarme

Man Utd won both premier league and CL means they are the best in Europe.

yes but only at the moment

Anima Flux · 08-12-2008, 09:48 PM

This whole "how can you be the best in Europe if you haven't won your own league" thing is utter bull.

If you win the CL, you've outlasted every team that was entered into it. You've beaten everyone in your path (excluding group games as you can still qualify if you lose games there)

You've done better than any other team in the competition, including the champion of your league if you did not win it.

It doesn't make you less deserving of the title because you haven't won the dosmetic league you are a part of in one bit. You've outlasted teams that others in your own league could not, or knocked teams from your own league out.

ForeverBlue'86 · 08-12-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobiflux

This whole "how can you be the best in Europe if you haven't won your own league" thing is utter bull.

If you win the CL, you've outlasted every team that was entered into it. You've beaten everyone in your path (excluding group games as you can still qualify if you lose games there)

You've done better than any other team in the competition, including the champion of your league if you did not win it.

It doesn't make you less deserving of the title because you haven't won the dosmetic league you are a part of in one bit. You've outlasted teams that others in your own league could not, or knocked teams from your own league out.

No one said those teams didn't deserve it, but it is a tad unfair and it doesn't mean they're the best in Europe, not by a long shot (Man Utd and Barcelona were mind). I'll put it a different way, from the time your club won it in 2005:

Liverpool: Prem: 5th - 58pts CL: Winners

Chelsea: Prem: Winners - 95 pts CL: Semi Finals

I'm not going to get into a lengthy discussion about it, but we were extremely unlucky not to progress to the final that year, and Liverpool focused purely on Europe and ended with a mere 58 points... ending below Everton, so, explain to me how Liverpool were "Champions Of Europe" when they didn't even come close to winning their own league, and not just that, they finished below another 4 teams!

MaschPotato · 08-12-2008, 11:05 PM

Champions League is a completely different competition than Premier League. Why are people so bothered?

ForeverBlue'86 · 08-12-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaschPotato

Champions League is a completely different competition than Premier League. Why are people so bothered?

"Champions League" - name suggests Liverpool shouldn't even be in it doesn't it?

Same goes for Arsenal in 2006 - year they got to the final they finished 24 points behind the Premiership winners in 4th, in fairness to them though, they finished 2nd the previous season, though why should a team finishing below first spot be allowed in a prestigeous competition that should be for champions only?

Fair enough bit of competition for the trophy to have the top 2 qualify, top 3 is pushing it, but adding a team who finished 4th is taking the lalalala IMO.

Scouser_Dave · 08-12-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaschPotato

Champions League is a completely different competition than Premier League. Why are people so bothered?

Jealousy

COYS · 08-12-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaschPotato

Champions League is a completely different competition than Premier League. Why are people so bothered?

I don't think people are all that bothered about it.

My team don't compete in the Champions League so I'm completely neutral, and if I'm being honest couldn't give a toss who wins it, but I think it's pretty easy to see that the format of the competition dosen't always reward the best teams.

Scuba Steve · 08-12-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobiflux

This whole "how can you be the best in Europe if you haven't won your own league" thing is utter bull.

If you win the CL, you've outlasted every team that was entered into it. You've beaten everyone in your path (excluding group games as you can still qualify if you lose games there)

You've done better than any other team in the competition, including the champion of your league if you did not win it.

It doesn't make you less deserving of the title because you haven't won the dosmetic league you are a part of in one bit. You've outlasted teams that others in your own league could not, or knocked teams from your own league out.

Would you then say that Portsmouth was the best team in England then last year? They won the cup competition, therefore, outlasting every team that entered into the competition.

Anima Flux · 09-12-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

No one said those teams didn't deserve it, but it is a tad unfair and it doesn't mean they're the best in Europe, not by a long shot (Man Utd and Barcelona were mind). I'll put it a different way, from the time your club won it in 2005:

Liverpool: Prem: 5th - 58pts CL: Winners

Chelsea: Prem: Winners - 95 pts CL: Semi Finals

I'm not going to get into a lengthy discussion about it, but we were extremely unlucky not to progress to the final that year, and Liverpool focused purely on Europe and ended with a mere 58 points... ending below Everton, so, explain to me how Liverpool were "Champions Of Europe" when they didn't even come close to winning their own league, and not just that, they finished below another 4 teams!

It's a European competition, which involves the best teams in Europe, the team who wins it outlasts every other team involved, regardless of the domestic league they are in and what position they finish in that league.

The CL is completely different competition to any league. If you want to get picky of the word "Champions" being in the title, then what about the "League" part? It's not a league, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokiegooner

Would you then say that Portsmouth was the best team in England then last year? They won the cup competition, therefore, outlasting every team that entered into the competition.

No, because there are two domestic cups, the FA Cup and Carling Cup, with the Premier League being the most prestigious title to win in English football. So, with that comment you just made, you are basically saying Pompey, Spurs and Utd are all joint best, which is just plain silly.

If a boxer won a European title, without holding the British title for his weight class, would that mean he's not the European Champion? Ofcourse not.

There's a major difference in being CL winners and league winners, the whole format is completely different.

lvrpl4life · 09-12-2008, 02:18 AM

The day a Bulgarian team wins the CL is the day hell freezes over.

Like they are going to have a chance.

The Chapmpions League is for exactly that...champions. And only the BEST teams shouldbe be playing in it.

It's tough if noone but English teams can make it past the quarters, other teams should play better then shouldn't they?

08-12-2008, 07:03 PM	#30 (permalink)
The Masterpiece Elite Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Masterland Gender: Male Posts: 5,735	some focus on the CL more, some on the domestic league, since we have been such a success in European football we tend to focus more on the CL thus finishing 4th or so in serie a. Still winning the European Champions league makes u the best in Europe IMO cuz it pits best teams together and u can't expect to get far in it if u only win the league or something __________________

08-12-2008, 07:26 PM	#32 (permalink)
The Masterpiece Elite Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Masterland Gender: Male Posts: 5,735	beating the other top teams in Europe make u. Liverpool havn't won the Premier League for 18 years but they are still the most succesful "English" team in Europe. Chelsae and Manure might dominate the Premiership but that still doesn't mean they are the best in europe __________________

08-12-2008, 08:45 PM	#37 (permalink)
10Totti10 Elite Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rome/Manchester Gender: Male Posts: 5,714	Here we go again English is great, england is the best at everything..... __________________ POS:ST APPS:20 ASSISTS:14 GOALS:31 CLUB:PUNJANA

08-12-2008, 08:54 PM	#39 (permalink)
dmp1887 Forum Junkie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scotland Age: 18 Posts: 2,576	IF they want new teams in it why dont they just reduce the prize money considerably - which is a major factor why the old firm in scotland always get into it! probaby the same in england too __________________ UNBAN MCFEARLESS! Last edited by dmp1887; 08-12-2008 at 09:09 PM..

08-12-2008, 09:48 PM	#42 (permalink)
Anima Flux Elite Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wales Age: 22 Gender: Male Posts: 5,938	This whole "how can you be the best in Europe if you haven't won your own league" thing is utter bull. If you win the CL, you've outlasted every team that was entered into it. You've beaten everyone in your path (excluding group games as you can still qualify if you lose games there) You've done better than any other team in the competition, including the champion of your league if you did not win it. It doesn't make you less deserving of the title because you haven't won the dosmetic league you are a part of in one bit. You've outlasted teams that others in your own league could not, or knocked teams from your own league out. __________________ Last edited by Anima Flux; 08-12-2008 at 10:31 PM..

08-12-2008, 06:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
ILCaesar Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milano Gender: Male Posts: 14,627	If you win, you deserve it because you got there and you rose to the occasion. That's my opinion.

08-12-2008, 07:20 PM	#31 (permalink)
ImperialGendarme Forum Junkie Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: England Age: 17 Gender: Male Posts: 4,735	But teams can get lucky draws and wins (Liverpool) in the CL, they finished 5th in the league in the season they won the CL, how did that make them the best team in Europe when they couldn't qualify for CL spot via the league?

08-12-2008, 11:05 PM	#44 (permalink)
MaschPotato EA Veteran Join Date: Feb 2008 Age: 19 Gender: Male Posts: 15,457	Champions League is a completely different competition than Premier League. Why are people so bothered?

09-12-2008, 02:18 AM	#50 (permalink)
lvrpl4life Forum Guru Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Age: 21 Posts: 1,846	The day a Bulgarian team wins the CL is the day hell freezes over. Like they are going to have a chance. The Chapmpions League is for exactly that...champions. And only the BEST teams shouldbe be playing in it. It's tough if noone but English teams can make it past the quarters, other teams should play better then shouldn't they? __________________