Have Ronaldo and Messi reached that level...... - Page 8

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 12:01 AM

When he goes abroad it will be to Spain where his game is more suited so I would assume he would be better than he is in the EPL unless he doesn't go until he is out of his prime, or he is played out of position, a la Henry.

zzwampen · 11-05-2008, 12:10 AM

i don't think he's more suited in spain now...he's adapted to the english play quite well...i'm not sure if he would do better in spain actually...

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 12:12 AM

I think he would. He plays very similar to how he played in Portugal even though he wasn't there for long. Spain is run and gun wide open and that is his game, its the reason why players like Vicente, Joaquin, Jesus Navas, Martin Petrov (when he was there), Messi, etc are able to run free.

smeltzerinho · 11-05-2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzwampen

i don't think he's more suited in spain now...he's adapted to the english play quite well...i'm not sure if he would do better in spain actually...

agree, arsene made him what he is.....the premiership is his home..i wish he'd just realise it.

Matieo10 · 11-05-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

agree, arsene made him what he is.....the premiership is his home..i wish he'd just realise it.

Are we talking about Ronaldo here...

or Henry/some other player?

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

agree, arsene made him what he is.....the premiership is his home..i wish he'd just realise it.

You do realize we were talking about Cristiano Ronaldo right? We aren't talking about Henry.

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Are we talking about Ronaldo here...

or Henry/some other player?

Yeah we are talking about Cris, I think he just came in on the middle of the exchange.

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 12:57 AM

Thierry can succeed in Spain. I mean look at his goal record, he has 10 goals despite hardly playing ST. If he was played in the right position Henry could easily lead the league in scoring in my opinion. Had Ronaldinho not been injured this season I think he and Titi would have been a sick combo given time to build chemistry.

smeltzerinho · 11-05-2008, 01:00 AM

sorry....just been reading henry interview. forget it. although my point is valid

Matieo10 · 11-05-2008, 01:03 AM

Always is Paul

Yeah, I think Ronaldo has been converted into an EPL player...would still like to see him play in Spain, and I think he would do very well over there aswell. But Ronaldo trains every day to play against EPL clubs, and he has the experience and train of thought to know what to do in the EPL. Where as Henry is a different case because of his injury, otherwise I can see him doing a bit better in Spain.

smeltzerinho · 11-05-2008, 01:21 AM

a bit yeah....but he's made for the premiership, he should come back before it's too late.

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 01:37 AM

I think he could flourish in Spain. Spain is so much easier to score in and defenses haven't been able to deal with his speed when he has played ST (a whole 5 times).

I would love to see him at Valencia if he didn't come back to Arsenal. I think Valencia's style of play would be perfect for Henry. If they could get a completely healthy team with Vicente and Joaquin on the wings, if they can capture Van der Vaart like they have been wanting for 2 years and if Henry would go, that would be bananas.

Matieo10 · 11-05-2008, 01:40 AM

He'll be 31 in a few more months...I believe it's already too late, as he can't play the full 90 without burning out near the end. Class mind is still there, but the body is aging unlike the mind of experience.

Well he has 17 goals and 9 assists in 39 games for Barca soo far...not bad at all, but not the standard we're accustomed to with Thierry. Shame, I really wanted to see him win the Champions League this year with Barca, for all that this man has done in futebol and not getting his due in some international acclaim is a travesty.

EDIT:

@ Gowill - Vicente will never be healthy

it's his curse, the man will always have the tag "potentially best winger"...he came on against Zaragoza last week, but he got injured again, after showing lil' glimpses of magic.

Valencia don't need Henry tbh, him and Villa are a bit similar in playing that SS role, and they already have a proven striker in Morientes with Zigic and the rising star Mata in the wings.

smeltzerinho · 11-05-2008, 01:54 AM

he just should have stayed at arsenal....i dont believe this dressing room lalalala, had he stayed, he would be in a chance of winning a medal i think.

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 01:56 AM

His age has nothing to do with it. He still plays full internationals with no problem. Henry is a very conditioned athlete and burn out has never been a problem with him, ever. He hasn't lost a step and is still one of the fastest players on the planet.

You talk about him like he is over the hill or something, you can't possibly expect him to reproduce his Arsenal numbers when he has been playing LWM for 85% of his appearances in a Barca shirt. He's played 6 games total as an out and out ST for Barca and in the games he started at ST he ended up interchanging to the wing.

I know that Valencia don't need him, but whne has that ever stopped a club from buying a player? Zigic is lalalala, Morientes is lalalala and declining, and Mata doesn't factor since he is a winger. I don't see the similarity that you are talking about between Henry and Villa because Villa is not a passing threat at all and he isn't nearly as fast or quick.

I know it's his curse, he is probably the most fragile player on the earth. I think in terms of pure winger he is the best when he is healthy, but getting him healthy is the problem.

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 01:59 AM

Well he said on numerous occasions he would have stayed had the Wenger situation been sorted out before the transfer been approved.

I wish he would have stayed also, but I do think that there are things that the general public will never know that let to his departure.

BarakatTreka · 11-05-2008, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Do you?

that's one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever witnessed.

Messi outshining Ronaldinho at the age of 18 those seasons...wow...jus' wow.

Other than the Real Madrid hattrick, what BIG games has Messi performed and dominated in? Performance being scoring, assisting, being a great player over the 90 minutes pretty much...and dominating being scoring a hat-trick against Madrid, and truly impacting a game.

I can say right now, Ronaldo has performed in more Big games than Messi, while as for domination, Messi has one over Ronaldo with Madrid that's it.

Sorry to get in this argument again but I had to say something about this. If you think that Messi's only BIG game was against Real Madrid, then you dont know what you are talking about!!

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 06:02 PM

Here's the problem.

People keep saying he shows up in big games, but NO ONE can list these so-called big games other than El Classico because that's obvious, but even then he was a non-factor is the anus whopping that they got recently by Real.

I know that I am no longer discussing Messi, but I would love to know the big games that people keep saying he has shown up in. Also don't mention any International U-XX games because those do not matter and do not mention anything related to the Copa America either because that also has no bearing.

Big games I want to know are things that matter in Europe or for Barca's survival as a team.

Matieo10 · 11-05-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

Sorry to get in this argument again but I had to say something about this. If you think that Messi's only BIG game was against Real Madrid, then you dont know what you are talking about!!

Name the "numerous" BIG games he performed in then

I've been waiting for two days now...

AriseForLife · 11-05-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Name the "numerous" BIG games he performed in then

I've been waiting for two days now...

Hell I have been waiting for longer than two days....

BarakatTreka · 12-05-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Hell I have been waiting for longer than two days....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Name the "numerous" BIG games he performed in then

I've been waiting for two days now...

hmmm, lets see: the champions league match against chelsea at bridge, the hatrick against madrid, the world cup match against serbia (not a big game but a big debut), champions league match against werder bremen, that week early this season where he scored 5 goals in one week, first leg against ManU, the game where he scored the "hand of god" (he scored two goals and was pivotal to the team), and honestly the last game against Madrid (sure barca sucked, but HE did show up and performed). Thats the ones i can remember off my memory. Saying Messi is just good because he is fast and just dribbles is being as dumb as a tree! Matieo is obviously a Ronaldo lover; therefore, he will never see both sides!
EDIT: And now that I remember, Messi almost single handedly won Barca La Liga last year near the end had Madrid not won it!!

EDIT:
And if yal think scoring goals is everything lets see something interesting...
Ronaldo: Appearances (ManU)- 163 Goals- 66 Percentage: 40%
Messi: Appearances (Barca)- 81 Goals- 32 Percentage: 40%
Anyone know how many penalties or freekicks Ronaldo scored with ManU??

AriseForLife · 12-05-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

hmmm, lets see: the champions league match against chelsea at bridge, the hatrick against madrid, the world cup match against serbia (not a big game but a big debut), champions league match against werder bremen, that week early this season where he scored 5 goals in one week, first leg against ManU, the game where he scored the "hand of god" (he scored two goals and was pivotal to the team), and honestly the last game against Madrid (sure barca sucked, but HE did show up and performed). Thats the ones i can remember off my memory. Saying Messi is just good because he is fast and just dribbles is being as dumb as a tree! Matieo is obviously a Ronaldo lover; therefore, he will never see both sides!

The match against Serbia is NOT a big match, debut or not.

CL match against Werder Bremen was NOT a big match, it was just another Champions League match.

The game that he used his hand to score a goal was NOT a big game either.

You can't possibly say that him being a non factor in the last Classico is showing up big, that just proves you are a complete fanboy for even mentioning that.

I think you are confused what big games actually means. A big game is a game that actually has a key moment in the clubs season, and to be honest the only games that Messi has been part of that would carry that meaning would be the knockout games in the CL in which he was a factor in only 2 of the 4 games because the season they won he was not even part of the run in.

People keep talking about Messi and big games but the fact is he hasn't really done anything that Cristiano hasn't done.

AriseForLife · 12-05-2008, 02:38 AM

Why are you even comparing goals scored? Look at the number of games difference that Ronaldo has been there for his team.

Why don't you look at how many games Messi has missed and compare that to Cristiano. A better comparison would be once Messi actually gets to 163 games then look back to see if they compare, but oh wait...............It will take Messi another decade to get to 163 games.

BarakatTreka · 12-05-2008, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

The match against Serbia is NOT a big match, debut or not.

CL match against Werder Bremen was NOT a big match, it was just another Champions League match.

The game that he used his hand to score a goal was NOT a big game either.

You can't possibly say that him being a non factor in the last Classico is showing up big, that just proves you are a complete fanboy for even mentioning that.

I think you are confused what big games actually means. A big game is a game that actually has a key moment in the clubs season, and to be honest the only games that Messi has been part of that would carry that meaning would be the knockout games in the CL in which he was a factor in only 2 of the 4 games because the season they won he was not even part of the run in.

People keep talking about Messi and big games but the fact is he hasn't really done anything that Cristiano hasn't done.

Looking back someone said dont consider international matches or matches against Madrid!!! WT F???? What BIG games has Ronaldo showed up for not including Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or international matches??? Can u consider any other game a BIG game???

BarakatTreka · 12-05-2008, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Why are you even comparing goals scored? Look at the number of games difference that Ronaldo has been there for his team.

Why don't you look at how many games Messi has missed and compare that to Cristiano. A better comparison would be once Messi actually gets to 163 games then look back to see if they compare, but oh wait...............It will take Messi another decade to get to 163 games.

Im comparing goals for idiots how think Ronaldo is JUST better because he scores more! Duh im gonna take games played in consideration, there is no other way!!! Fine, lets wait until Game 163 for Messi. Hmm, he has 34 goals left to meet Ronaldo's standard! And lets please take in consideration plenalty kicks and freekicks for Ronaldo's goals!!! Do you know how many those were for Ronaldo?? So im gonna take a good guess and say Messi really needs about 25 more goals at most to meet Ronaldo's goal count!! Not hard in 82 matches!!!

View Poll Results: Have Ronaldo and Messi reached the level of Pele and Maradona
Yes , these guys are immense	5	9.62%
No, but they could do	32	61.54%
No, they will never be at that level	16	30.77%
At that level? They have completly passed it	4	7.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

11-05-2008, 12:10 AM	#177 (permalink)
zzwampen EA Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 15,654	i don't think he's more suited in spain now...he's adapted to the english play quite well...i'm not sure if he would do better in spain actually... __________________

11-05-2008, 01:00 AM	#184 (permalink)
smeltzerinho Festive know-it-all Join Date: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 22,340	sorry....just been reading henry interview. forget it. although my point is valid __________________ FIFA Goals

11-05-2008, 01:21 AM	#186 (permalink)
smeltzerinho Festive know-it-all Join Date: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 22,340	a bit yeah....but he's made for the premiership, he should come back before it's too late. __________________ FIFA Goals

11-05-2008, 01:40 AM	#188 (permalink)
Matieo10 EA Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Estádio do Dragão Gender: Private Posts: 19,244 Blog Entries: 3	He'll be 31 in a few more months...I believe it's already too late, as he can't play the full 90 without burning out near the end. Class mind is still there, but the body is aging unlike the mind of experience. Well he has 17 goals and 9 assists in 39 games for Barca soo far...not bad at all, but not the standard we're accustomed to with Thierry. Shame, I really wanted to see him win the Champions League this year with Barca, for all that this man has done in futebol and not getting his due in some international acclaim is a travesty. EDIT: @ Gowill - Vicente will never be healthy it's his curse, the man will always have the tag "potentially best winger"...he came on against Zaragoza last week, but he got injured again, after showing lil' glimpses of magic. Valencia don't need Henry tbh, him and Villa are a bit similar in playing that SS role, and they already have a proven striker in Morientes with Zigic and the rising star Mata in the wings. Last edited by Matieo10; 11-05-2008 at 01:43 AM..

11-05-2008, 12:01 AM	#176 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	When he goes abroad it will be to Spain where his game is more suited so I would assume he would be better than he is in the EPL unless he doesn't go until he is out of his prime, or he is played out of position, a la Henry.

11-05-2008, 12:12 AM	#178 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	I think he would. He plays very similar to how he played in Portugal even though he wasn't there for long. Spain is run and gun wide open and that is his game, its the reason why players like Vicente, Joaquin, Jesus Navas, Martin Petrov (when he was there), Messi, etc are able to run free.

11-05-2008, 12:57 AM	#183 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	Thierry can succeed in Spain. I mean look at his goal record, he has 10 goals despite hardly playing ST. If he was played in the right position Henry could easily lead the league in scoring in my opinion. Had Ronaldinho not been injured this season I think he and Titi would have been a sick combo given time to build chemistry.

11-05-2008, 01:03 AM	#185 (permalink)
Matieo10 EA Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Estádio do Dragão Gender: Private Posts: 19,244 Blog Entries: 3	Always is Paul Yeah, I think Ronaldo has been converted into an EPL player...would still like to see him play in Spain, and I think he would do very well over there aswell. But Ronaldo trains every day to play against EPL clubs, and he has the experience and train of thought to know what to do in the EPL. Where as Henry is a different case because of his injury, otherwise I can see him doing a bit better in Spain.

11-05-2008, 01:37 AM	#187 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	I think he could flourish in Spain. Spain is so much easier to score in and defenses haven't been able to deal with his speed when he has played ST (a whole 5 times). I would love to see him at Valencia if he didn't come back to Arsenal. I think Valencia's style of play would be perfect for Henry. If they could get a completely healthy team with Vicente and Joaquin on the wings, if they can capture Van der Vaart like they have been wanting for 2 years and if Henry would go, that would be bananas.

11-05-2008, 01:54 AM	#189 (permalink)
smeltzerinho Festive know-it-all Join Date: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 22,340	he just should have stayed at arsenal....i dont believe this dressing room lalalala, had he stayed, he would be in a chance of winning a medal i think. __________________ FIFA Goals

11-05-2008, 01:56 AM	#190 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	His age has nothing to do with it. He still plays full internationals with no problem. Henry is a very conditioned athlete and burn out has never been a problem with him, ever. He hasn't lost a step and is still one of the fastest players on the planet. You talk about him like he is over the hill or something, you can't possibly expect him to reproduce his Arsenal numbers when he has been playing LWM for 85% of his appearances in a Barca shirt. He's played 6 games total as an out and out ST for Barca and in the games he started at ST he ended up interchanging to the wing. I know that Valencia don't need him, but whne has that ever stopped a club from buying a player? Zigic is lalalala, Morientes is lalalala and declining, and Mata doesn't factor since he is a winger. I don't see the similarity that you are talking about between Henry and Villa because Villa is not a passing threat at all and he isn't nearly as fast or quick. I know it's his curse, he is probably the most fragile player on the earth. I think in terms of pure winger he is the best when he is healthy, but getting him healthy is the problem.

11-05-2008, 01:59 AM	#191 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	Well he said on numerous occasions he would have stayed had the Wenger situation been sorted out before the transfer been approved. I wish he would have stayed also, but I do think that there are things that the general public will never know that let to his departure.

11-05-2008, 06:02 PM	#193 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	Here's the problem. People keep saying he shows up in big games, but NO ONE can list these so-called big games other than El Classico because that's obvious, but even then he was a non-factor is the anus whopping that they got recently by Real. I know that I am no longer discussing Messi, but I would love to know the big games that people keep saying he has shown up in. Also don't mention any International U-XX games because those do not matter and do not mention anything related to the Copa America either because that also has no bearing. Big games I want to know are things that matter in Europe or for Barca's survival as a team.

12-05-2008, 02:38 AM	#198 (permalink)
AriseForLife EA Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The United States Age: 29 Gender: Male Posts: 10,098	Why are you even comparing goals scored? Look at the number of games difference that Ronaldo has been there for his team. Why don't you look at how many games Messi has missed and compare that to Cristiano. A better comparison would be once Messi actually gets to 163 games then look back to see if they compare, but oh wait...............It will take Messi another decade to get to 163 games.