Have Ronaldo and Messi reached that level......

[AriseForLife]

You also have to admit that Cris is a lot more arrogant on the field than Messi so that contributes to why people hate him.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Guy I've been saying that all along, people jus' don't see it.

With Barca you have to mark Messi, Eto'o, Henry, Ronaldinho, Bojan (who get's his goals by not being noticed/marked).

With United you really only have to mark Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, maybe Nani (considering even when Giggs starts he has gone down in form).

Not to mention that EPL clubs have better defences than La Liga teams...if you look at Mid Table teams you can notice the quality in defence that differ between both leagues.

Messi can slither his way past 5-6 defenders with almost no space!! Ronaldo CANT!! He can do it if he had space, but Messi can control the ball and just dazzle through like Maradona!!! So i dont care if you double team Messi or not, its not gonna be a habit of stopping him!!! better defences??? I guess so if the intention of stopping him is about giving him a career threatening injury!!!

[Matieo10]

Messi has this natural ability to dribble, given he has a low centre of gravity due to his growth hormone that has helped him more than has faultered him.

Ronaldo has this ability to get better and better through his hard work...yes he friggin' earns what he gets by working hard off the pitch, and he strives to be the best in the world. Ronaldo wasn't born into a country filled with footballing excelllence, Portugal is a small country, and Madeira is an even smaller island. Messi was born ready to be named the next Maradona and being pampered by Barcelona since he was a boy.

Ronaldo stays fit because he works hard at it, he is an athlete, while Messi is injured half of the season, gets fully fit and then get's ready to play a game after being recharged...and to think Messi plays in a less physical league aswell gimme a break.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

Messi can slither his way past 5-6 defenders with almost no space!! Ronaldo CANT!! He can do it if he had space, but Messi can control the ball and just dazzle through like Maradona!!! So i dont care if you double team Messi or not, its not gonna be a habit of stopping him!!! better defences??? I guess so if the intention of stopping him is about giving him a career threatening injury!!!

Really. Because in that Getafe game that everyone talks about he had leagues of space to make his moves. Being able to beat 5 or 6 defenders (which he can't) is not something one should be proud of, that means your team mates are just watching you play and that is no the case when teams play Barca, because Eto'o draws 2 defenders by himself and even an out of position Henry has drawn plenty of attention.

Messi would not do what he does in the Primera in the EPL and that is truth. He will never come the the UK because his game is not suited to the EPL. Cris on the other had doesn't have to beat handfuls of defenders because he just blows by the 2 man markers he faces all match. It doesn't matter if he dribbles past someone or gets a feed while on a run because be can also kill you in dead ball senarios and Messi is not a threat from dead ball situations.

The one thing I will say is that Forever might like Messi more but at least heis open to some ideas about Cris, you on the other had are easily the biggest Messi fanboy I have ever seen. You can't say one negative thing about MEssi and its evident in your posts.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Really. Because in that Getafe game that everyone talks about he had leagues of space to make his moves. Being able to beat 5 or 6 defenders (which he can't) is not something one should be proud of, that means your team mates are just watching you play and that is no the case when teams play Barca, because Eto'o draws 2 defenders by himself and even an out of position Henry has drawn plenty of attention.

Messi would not do what he does in the Primera in the EPL and that is truth. He will never come the the UK because his game is not suited to the EPL. Cris on the other had doesn't have to beat handfuls of defenders because he just blows by the 2 man markers he faces all match. It doesn't matter if he dribbles past someone or gets a feed while on a run because be can also kill you in dead ball senarios and Messi is not a threat from dead ball situations.

The one thing I will say is that Forever might like Messi more but at least heis open to some ideas about Cris, you on the other had are easily the biggest Messi fanboy I have ever seen. You can't say one negative thing about MEssi and its evident in your posts.

YEAH I do love Messi and Im one of his biggest fans!! I also love Ronaldo! I just think Messi is better (nothing wrong that)! As for the negative aspects of Messi, yes there are some! Set pieces are one of them as you mentioned. Others are defending and goalkeeping! It may seem that I dont like Ronaldo, but believe me I do! And I probably liked him before any other Ronaldo lover today! Im just trying to prove that Messi is better, that is why Im writing so much about him and against Ronaldo in my posts! I know his style doesnt suite the EPL, i mentioned that in several other posts on several other threads!

[Matieo10]

To be fair, Ronaldo doesn't always blow his marker away, but he'll beat his first man most of the time. Shame he get's marked like George Clooney in a prison courtyard after he beats his first man. EPL defenders like to run and swarm the players they've been set to mark, while La Liga defenders will sit back and defend their post, letting players run at them and wait for them to make a mistake and cut the ball out from the attacker.

Ronaldo is complete forward. Can play and shoot with both feet, he can cross, he can pass, he can shoot, he can take set-pieces, he can head the ball, hell he can even clear the ball in the area, he's got pace/acceleration, he's worked hard to be better as a player, and I don't think he's even reached his peak yet since he has alot to improve IMHO.

A player does not average a goal a game, 40 in 43 because he isn't special or prolific, because Ronaldo is a special player. Messi is special aswell, a great talent in World Football...but he is not better than Ronaldo this season, or last season...or the World Cup for that matter.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Messi has this natural ability to dribble, given he has a low centre of gravity due to his growth hormone that has helped him more than has faultered him.

Ronaldo has this ability to get better and better through his hard work...yes he friggin' earns what he gets by working hard off the pitch, and he strives to be the best in the world. Ronaldo wasn't born into a country filled with footballing excelllence, Portugal is a small country, and Madeira is an even smaller island. Messi was born ready to be named the next Maradona and being pampered by Barcelona since he was a boy.

Ronaldo stays fit because he works hard at it, he is an athlete, while Messi is injured half of the season, gets fully fit and then get's ready to play a game after being recharged...and to think Messi plays in a less physical league aswell gimme a break.

Come on now, has it gone this far to hate on his God given skills???? WHO ****ING CARES DUDE??? I dont care if he works harder or wasnt naturally talented as Messi!! The point is Messi is better! Is it by chance because of his natural skills, central gravity, hormones, long hair, longer lalalalala, etc. Seriously dude!!!

[RevolutionMikE5]

Well, Messi plays about like 20-25 games a season, how many does Ronaldo play?

[Galatasaray]

Ronaldo has played 40 so far....i think? i don't know some where around there

U sure Messi only plays 20-25 games a season?

[Andrés]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I wouldn't go that far. I never thought Messi was outshining Ronnie. The reason that Barca aren't a 3rd or 4th spot team is because Ronnie dug them out of that hole singlehandedly albeit having Eto'o also played a part, but that first 2nd place finish was due in part to Edgar Davids (mainly) and Ronaldinho.

I don't think Messi would be as good if you placed him in Manchester United and put Cris in Barca. I think Cris would be just as good, but Messi would become something completely different but not as good.

Barcelona are third right now and are only 3 points ahead of us

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

To be fair, Ronaldo doesn't always blow his marker away, but he'll beat his first man most of the time. Shame he get's marked like George Clooney in a prison courtyard after he beats his first man. EPL defenders like to run and swarm the players they've been set to mark, while La Liga defenders will sit back and defend their post, letting players run at them and wait for them to make a mistake and cut the ball out from the attacker.

Ronaldo is complete forward. Can play and shoot with both feet, he can cross, he can pass, he can shoot, he can take set-pieces, he can head the ball, hell he can even clear the ball in the area, he's got pace/acceleration, he's worked hard to be better as a player, and I don't think he's even reached his peak yet since he has alot to improve IMHO.

A player does not average a goal a game, 40 in 43 because he isn't special or prolific, because Ronaldo is a special player. Messi is special aswell, a great talent in World Football...but he is not better than Ronaldo this season, or last season...or the World Cup for that matter.

I totally agree that Ronaldo has had a better season than Messi this year, last year, and the World Cup (what messi played like one game cant really say anything) hands down!!! Thats not the point im making! I dont know about you, but others think Ronaldo is the best in the world just because he can score 40 goals and win titles (not saying that isnt impressive). But you cant just look at stats! This isnt math class, its FOOTBALL!!!

Originally Posted by LeoMessi19

Well, Messi plays about like 20-25 games a season, how many does Ronaldo play?

so the more caps you have the better a player you are? Hosam Hassan is the second best national team player the world has ever seen then!!

[Matieo10]

When people can't make fair points they take out the stats...now you're saying when I show stats that I'm not making a fair point.

Fact is, Messi can't play a full season because of his injuries...even when he plays he doesn't average the same amount of goals Ronaldo has done the past two years whilst playing an advanced wide forward position.

Fact is, Ronaldo has helped Man Utd to a Champions League Final and (most likely in respect to Chelsea) a League Title this year. When Man Utd need Ronaldo to score goals, he does, and he has been clutch in the past.

People say Ronaldo doesn't perform in big games...fair enough, Chelsea is one of them. Yet he is as dominant as he is in the Champions League? it makes sense, because he was a winner in Lyon (french champions) and Roma (Best team in Italy at the time), and played good against Barca...and even though he didn't perform outstanding against Arsenal, he did bag a goal and that's what great players do, they can play like lalalala and get an end product. He did play well against Liverpool and every other team in the EPL, especially the mid table teams like Aston Villa

Messi can play and dribble a whole lalalain' team of Carles Puyols and John Terry's...but without an end product, he is not great!. There is build up, and then there is finish. Arsenal look wonderful at times with their build up, but when they don't score they look woeful.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

YEAH I do love Messi and Im one of his biggest fans!! I also love Ronaldo! I just think Messi is better (nothing wrong that)! As for the negative aspects of Messi, yes there are some! Set pieces are one of them as you mentioned. Others are defending and goalkeeping! It may seem that I dont like Ronaldo, but believe me I do! And I probably liked him before any other Ronaldo lover today! Im just trying to prove that Messi is better, that is why Im writing so much about him and against Ronaldo in my posts! I know his style doesnt suite the EPL, i mentioned that in several other posts on several other threads!

There is nothing wrong with liking Messi, but there is also no point in typing more to try to make people think he is better. Regardless of what you say I will never agree that Messi is better than Cristiano because he isn't just like I would never say that Cris or Messi are better than Kaka because I don't think they are.

Messi is a talented player but his game is limited to La Liga at the moment because he would struggle in the UK, or Holland, and probably even Germany.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by Galatasaray

Ronaldo has played 40 so far....i think? i don't know some where around there

U sure Messi only plays 20-25 games a season?

Messi has played 108 games in all compeitions over the last 4 seasons so basically 27 games per season.

[Andrés]

19>7

[RevolutionMikE5]

Originally Posted by Rumblerege

19>7

why?

[Matieo10]

It's their kit numbers buddy, try to keep up with Rumble's terrible logic of football.

40 > How many goals does Messi have again? oh right, not even in the ESM race.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Fact is, Messi can't play a full season because of his injuries...even when he plays he doesn't average the same amount of goals Ronaldo has done the past two years whilst playing an advanced wide forward position.

People talk about him being a better scorer and yet Messi has never even netted 20 goals in all competitions yet. Messi is not a greater offensive threat than Cris and that is a fact.

[quote]Fact is, Ronaldo has helped Man Utd to a Champions League Final and (most likely in respect to Chelsea) a League Title this year. When Man Utd need Ronaldo to score goals, he does, and he has been clutch in the past.[quote]

True. Even though Messi does have a CL medal from 2005/06 he did not have any role whatsoever in helping them win the CL.

[Matieo10]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

True. Even though Messi does have a CL medal from 2005/06 he did not have any role whatsoever in helping them win the CL.

Actually I think he played a few games that season in the CL, but he wasn't a big part of it. Still was good IMO but numerous other players had better seasons that year in the CL.

Ronaldinho was the man that year, was the best player in the World...mindful that Henry was brilliant and jus' as good aswell, I still dread Arsenal not winning in the final

[AriseForLife]

He played 6 games in the CL that season and scored 1 goal, but I am refering to the final because I have seen people mention Messi being a CL winner, but he didn't actually play in the game or the build up to help them get there. He missed the Benfica, Milan and Arsenal games, but people mention him like he has something to do with them winning the CL.

[Matieo10]

Naww, it was Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Deco, Puyol...also Valdes when he was still considered 'good'.

EDIT: That helped them win that year I mean

[Andrés]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

It's their kit numbers buddy, try to keep up with Rumble's terrible logic of football.

40 > How many goals does Messi have again? oh right, not even in the ESM race.

Terrible logic?
It was a joke, get over it!

[BarakatTreka]

I still think Messi is better. AGAIN FOR A THOUSAND TIMES...

1)EPL? La Liga? Totally different leagues and i believe that you are bound to score more goals in EPL than La Liga! Im sure its easier to score goals against Derby than the team at the bottom of La Liga!!
2)So what if Messi is injured! Does he leak his talent out??? unless its a very serious injury, your talent doesnt change (only your form)!!!
3)I agree that Ronaldo is at better FORM than Messi (due to Messi's consistent injuries)
4)We cant really say Messi wont shine in any other league, until he plays there! Ronaldo hasnt played anywhere else except England and Portugal (if u want to consider that)!
5)Winning titles is a team effort, even if one player does most of the work!
6)We will never reach an agreement, so here are my points and you put yours. Let the neutrals decide!

[Galatasaray]

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

I still think Messi is better. AGAIN FOR A THOUSAND TIMES...

1)EPL? La Liga? Totally different leagues and i believe that you are bound to score more goals in EPL than La Liga! Im sure its easier to score goals against Derby than the team at the bottom of La Liga!!
2)So what if Messi is injured! Does he leak his talent out??? unless its a very serious injury, your talent doesnt change (only your form)!!!
3)I agree that Ronaldo is at better FORM than Messi (due to Messi's consistent injuries)
4)We cant really say Messi wont shine in any other league, until he plays there! Ronaldo hasnt played anywhere else except England and Portugal (if u want to consider that)!
5)Winning titles is a team effort, even if one player does most of the work!
6)We will never reach an agreement, so here are my points and you put yours. Let the neutrals decide!

#4 - i really doubt Messi would be able to play in England. He would be getting injured even more constantly. I don't think he's strong enough, as for Ronaldo, his playing style fits Spain more then it does England.

#2 - No your talent does change. But IMO, you potential does change. I've said this a million times but i'll say it again. I think Messi could've become the next Maradona, maybe better. But he get's injured to much.

#5 - Yes winning titles is a team effort, there no doubt about it. But Ronaldo is the one that has lead United this far in the league. Without him, United would probably be in 3rd.


I'm not going to lie, i am a little bias. I am a big fan of Ronaldo. But i'm also a big fan of Messi (like Ronaldo more though)

[prol33tar1at]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

... unless he brings the small country of Portugal glory in the future (near future in Euro 200, and I doubt Messi will ever touch what Diego Maradonna did with club (Napoli) and country.

I hope so cause i already got lines on 2010 and euros. And about Messi, your smart enough to know about his health. He has genetic defects, one way or another some day it will kill him.