Have Ronaldo and Messi reached that level......

[yarnbury11]

Neither of those players are anywhere near the 'Legendary' level of Pele etc. Haven't played long enough and could easily fade away and only be remembered for a few good years.

[ForeverBlue'86]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Actually when Barca lose it is always Ronaldinho's fault even though he isn't even in the game.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but from what I hear Messi was being abused by Marcelo. I don't know but thats what I was told by a friend.

Messi started out wide, barely got the ball as Madrid dominated and went 2-0 up, then played centrally and still didn't recieve the ball and towards the end after Higuain scored he went out wide and then started to recieve it more.

Marcelo never had him in his pocket, you can probably watch a replay of it on your local Sky channel or whatever Sports channel you Americans recieve, take a look for yourself, I suggest you try not listening to Matieo though (Me either to appease Matieo) and watch it.

Robben stole the show, Henry was awful and looks horribly used out wide and Bojan looked well out his depth last night... they looked to Messi every single time and when he tried to penetrate the rest of their players almost gave up, like they didn't care, even Xavi couldn't help the team an got himself a red.

He was far from awful though mate... didn't even play against Marcelo till the final 20 minutes an all.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Well since you say that with so much conviction, I would love to hear why you think that. First of all Cristiano's game is not similar to Maradona or Pele so a comparison is pointless, and with Messi the kid can't sneeze without breaking something so to say injury free he woudl be better is pointless also because the fact is he is injury prone because of his condition.

Either way I would love to hear why you think Messi is the closer of the bunch and how you consider him to be better than Cristiano! Messi's style is easier to compare to Maradona and Pele because he is South American and he is a CAM just like they were, and he is small in stature like they are, but thats about where the comparisons should end because he is just starting his career and they are legends, well at least Pele is in my opinion.

1) Exactly, u cant compare these players to Maradona or Pele, so I was saying that sumo is wrong for saying Ronaldo is at that level!
2) Why is it pointless to say that when he is injury free he is better? Its not like he hasnt been injury free AT ALL! We arent imaging things! And neither are we debating if Ronaldo is a better transfer than Messi because he can play more matches for you!
3) In my opinion Messi is better than Ronaldo because the way he can pick his team up and perform very good football even when he is under presssure and his teammates arent helping any! Messi is also more consistent than Ronaldo!
4)Please dont mention his injuries again, because I can play better than Messi and Ronaldo when they are injured!!!

[Matieo10]

No, because in the second leg of the Man Utd - Barca match, Ronaldo was the better player. Maybe you can't see what off the ball play is, but Ronaldo was outstanding in that area. Alot of United players were great that day, I reckon Park, Evra, and VDS were the best on the pitch.

I don't wanna go into further detail, I've done that in another forum and have proved Barca fans and haters alike that Ronaldo was a different player that day. Besides he was playing lone striker against 4 barca defenders in the first leg, I dunno which leg you're on about though, but the first leg Messi was better.

[Matieo10]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

Messi started out wide, barely got the ball as Madrid dominated and went 2-0 up, then played centrally and still didn't recieve the ball and towards the end after Higuain scored he went out wide and then started to recieve it more.

Marcelo never had him in his pocket, you can probably watch a replay of it on your local Sky channel or whatever Sports channel you Americans recieve, take a look for yourself, I suggest you try not listening to Matieo though (Me either to appease Matieo) and watch it.

Robben stole the show, Henry was awful and looks horribly used out wide and Bojan looked well out his depth last night... they looked to Messi every single time and when he tried to penetrate the rest of their players almost gave up, like they didn't care, even Xavi couldn't help the team an got himself a red.

He was far from awful though mate... didn't even play against Marcelo till the final 20 minutes an all.

Class act, Forever class act you are

Say what you will of me, but that was pretty low.

I bet it's hard to admit that 19 year old Marcelo had an outstanding game going forward, and defensively against "one of the best players in La Liga". But whatever, if you want the match Gowill, I have a torrent and the match on my computer.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

No, because in the second leg of the Man Utd - Barca match, Ronaldo was the better player. Maybe you can't see what off the ball play is, but Ronaldo was outstanding in that area. Alot of United players were great that day, I reckon Park, Evra, and VDS were the best on the pitch.

I don't wanna go into further detail, I've done that in another forum and have proved Barca fans and haters alike that Ronaldo was a different player that day. Besides he was playing lone striker against 4 barca defenders in the first leg, I dunno which leg you're on about though, but the first leg Messi was better.

Ya i was talking about the first leg. I didnt see the second leg, therefore, i cant say anything!

[Glorious90]

Originally Posted by yarnbury11

Neither of those players are anywhere near the 'Legendary' level of Pele etc. Haven't played long enough and could easily fade away and only be remembered for a few good years.

Yeah, they arent as legendary yet, but they are way above the skill level of Pelé and Maradona

[yarnbury11]

It will always be impossible to determine whether that was exactly true as they never played together/against each other


But I disagree, they have the potential to be if they keep improving, but if they have reached their potential already (which is unlikely but possible) then they aren't in the same class

Besides, Pele didn't even have shoes

[RevolutionMikE5]

are you serious? If so, your on crack

FACT.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by yarnbury11

Besides, Pele didn't even have shoes

[ForeverBlue'86]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

Class act, Forever class act you are

Say what you will of me, but that was pretty low.

I bet it's hard to admit that 19 year old Marcelo had an outstanding game going forward, and defensively against "one of the best players in La Liga". But whatever, if you want the match Gowill, I have a torrent and the match on my computer.

Errrm, read the little bit after? How on earth can someone listen to you with the way you slaughter Messi though?

Really - Barca were awful yesterday, he was their brightest spark, yet you're putting all the blame on him.

When Ronaldo gets it it's usually because Rooney, Ferdinand, Evra, Scholes etc play their hearts out for their team and Ronaldo goes missing - big difference, even the sternest of Manc fans say it, and I know it hurts trying to accept it.

Not sure how that was "low", but oh well.

[BarakatTreka]

Matieo, there is one thing to be biased or show affection to a single player over another! But its a whole different story when you are blind towards other players and think that the world revolves around Ronaldo and his 40 goals this season!!!

[Andrés]

No and they never will.

We will never see players like Maradona again and to compare anyone to him is just stupid.

Even players like Cruyff and Van Basten were better than Ronaldo or Messi will ever be.

[ForeverBlue'86]

Originally Posted by Rumblerege

No and they never will.

We will never see players like Maradona again and to compare anyone to him is just stupid.

Even players like Cruyff and Van Basten were better than Ronaldo or Messi will ever be.

What's with that mentality?

Are Maradona and Pele that good no one will ever be as good? Seems like it, every opportunity someone finds time to point them out and say "Oh but they'll never be as great as these 2"... same names too.

[Andrés]

I don't think anyone will ever be that good or that influential, they both changed the game and were the first true players of the modern game.

I don't think anyone will have that sort of influence ever again and there will probably never be any player considered to be as good as Pele or Maradona.

[Matieo10]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

Errrm, read the little bit after? How on earth can someone listen to you with the way you slaughter Messi though?

Really - Barca were awful yesterday, he was their brightest spark, yet you're putting all the blame on him.

When Ronaldo gets it it's usually because Rooney, Ferdinand, Evra, Scholes etc play their hearts out for their team and Ronaldo goes missing - big difference, even the sternest of Manc fans say it, and I know it hurts trying to accept it.

Not sure how that was "low", but oh well.

Oh please, let's all feel sorry for Messi now, but it's alright to bash Ronaldo because that's all he's been the end of for the past 5 years, for every little thing he does wrong.

So what, I can't put the blame on Messi? cus I wasn't if you had read my match thread. But when United lose it's always Ronaldo didn't perform great let's blame him, he's gets it ten times worse than any other United player and you know that. Is it because he's Portuguese? maybe, is it because he's considered the best player on the team by the media? probably yes.

You cannot deny that Messi has this do-only-good image to him, while Ronaldo has been rediculed year after year. One dive in a match, and he gets beat through most people. Yet Messi handles the ball yesterday and I have yet to hear one, ONE person other than me say it. That jus' goes to show.

Messi was poor, Barca were dreadful, what else is there to say? fact is, Messi still had NO END PRODUCT to anything he did, despite his big game player image that goes along with him...atleast if Ronaldo doesn't peform through the 90 minutes, he'll bag a goal...something Messi finds hard to do. The pass to Henry wasn't brilliant or great, the finish by Henry was...the assist shouldn't be given full credit for Barca's consolation goal.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

1) Exactly, u cant compare these players to Maradona or Pele, so I was saying that sumo is wrong for saying Ronaldo is at that level!

You contradicted yourself also because you said Messi was loads better and closer to that level. If you can't compare them then Messi also can't be closer to that level can he?

2) Why is it pointless to say that when he is injury free he is better? Its not like he hasnt been injury free AT ALL! We arent imaging things! And neither are we debating if Ronaldo is a better transfer than Messi because he can play more matches for you!

Its pointless because Messi has been injured multiple times every year of his career. He has played in 75 out of a possible 153 league games so talking about him as a what if he was injury free is pointless because he is injury prone. Since you bring up more matches, yes, Cristiano would be better because if you player is made available to you more often that is better for the team than just having a good player on your payroll he can't play half the time.

3) In my opinion Messi is better than Ronaldo because the way he can pick his team up and perform very good football even when he is under presssure and his teammates arent helping any! Messi is also more consistent than Ronaldo!

So you are saying that Crisitano can't pick his team up? Cristiano has carried United on his back for the last 2 seasons and it can be argued that Barca have a more talented team so Messi has better overall players around him. How do you figure that Messi is more consistent? I know it is your opinion but performances on the pitch are fact and Messi is NOT more consistent than Cristiano.

4)Please dont mention his injuries again, because I can play better than Messi and Ronaldo when they are injured!!!

I will mention his injuries as much as it takes because they are a part of who he is.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by Rumblerege

No and they never will.

We will never see players like Maradona again and to compare anyone to him is just stupid.

Even players like Cruyff and Van Basten were better than Ronaldo or Messi will ever be.

Thats a bold statement to make considering you don't know who good they will be since you can't see the future. Van Basten's career was shortened by injuries so he has that in common Messi and Cruyff is arguably the best player ever to come out of EU besides Beckenbauer, but with so many years to go in the prospective careers of Cris and Leo, you cna't be sure.

However it is a safe assumption to say they won't impact the world like Pele or Maradona did because those are one-off situations.

[AriseForLife]

I don't like either Messi or Cris, but I will admit that Messi has a "can do no wrong" persona in many of his fans eyes and people in general that follow the game.

[ForeverBlue'86]

Messi can though - I slaughtered him bad for his theatrics a few years back, don't think anyone thinks he can do no wrong, in fact, at one point I absoloutely loathed him, i'm sure Palancas will tell you I did.

Things changed gradually, i've watched La Liga over the last couple yes and seen his qualities shine through, and it's the same reason most Barca fans decided Messi was outshining Ronaldinho even before his dip in form.

[AriseForLife]

I wouldn't go that far. I never thought Messi was outshining Ronnie. The reason that Barca aren't a 3rd or 4th spot team is because Ronnie dug them out of that hole singlehandedly albeit having Eto'o also played a part, but that first 2nd place finish was due in part to Edgar Davids (mainly) and Ronaldinho.

I don't think Messi would be as good if you placed him in Manchester United and put Cris in Barca. I think Cris would be just as good, but Messi would become something completely different but not as good.

[ForeverBlue'86]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I wouldn't go that far. I never thought Messi was outshining Ronnie. The reason that Barca aren't a 3rd or 4th spot team is because Ronnie dug them out of that hole singlehandedly albeit having Eto'o also played a part, but that first 2nd place finish was due in part to Edgar Davids (mainly) and Ronaldinho.

I don't think Messi would be as good if you placed him in Manchester United and put Cris in Barca. I think Cris would be just as good, but Messi would become something completely different but not as good.

Messi would be far better IMO, the Manure players around Ronaldo work their socks off, looking at the Barca players right now they all seem careless, gutless and need a good kick up the ar5e, only very few are trying to play for the shirt.

[AriseForLife]

The difference though is that Barca have more players that need to be accounted for so it allows Messi to be in one on one situations more often. With Cris other teams know to double up on him especially around goal and he still ends up beating them and scoring.

I think if Messi were in the EPL he would be bullied and it would change his came completely. I know there have been other small attackers in the ePL with great effect, but I can't see Messi doing a Zola in the EPL.

[Matieo10]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

Messi can though - I slaughtered him bad for his theatrics a few years back, don't think anyone thinks he can do no wrong, in fact, at one point I absoloutely loathed him, i'm sure Palancas will tell you I did.

Things changed gradually, i've watched La Liga over the last couple yes and seen his qualities shine through, and it's the same reason most Barca fans decided Messi was outshining Ronaldinho even before his dip in form.

That's you though, and probably only Chelsea fans. That Del Horno red card wasn't "all" on Messi though.

Ronaldinho is still a force in football, on form the man is better than any other attacking player IMHO. It's a travesty his life has turned out the way it has the past two years...

Besides the point,

It's easier to hate Ronaldo than Messi, would agree with that for neutral's sake?

It's harder to admit Ronaldo is the best player in the world, than to say someone like Kaka and Messi, right?

In England, who would you hate more...a Portuguese or an Argentine? I've heard it all the past 5 years, from greasy lalalalaer to Christina "show pony" Ronalda. It's not hard to see that Ronaldo is hated more than Messi, Ronaldo get's booed everywhere in the world, even in Portugal, you don't see that with Messi.

This season, who is better, Ronaldo or Messi? you'd be a fool to say Messi, or seriously biased

[Matieo10]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

The difference though is that Barca have more players that need to be accounted for so it allows Messi to be in one on one situations more often. With Cris other teams know to double up on him especially around goal and he still ends up beating them and scoring.

I think if Messi were in the EPL he would be bullied and it would change his came completely. I know there have been other small attackers in the ePL with great effect, but I can't see Messi doing a Zola in the EPL.

Guy I've been saying that all along, people jus' don't see it.

With Barca you have to mark Messi, Eto'o, Henry, Ronaldinho, Bojan (who get's his goals by not being noticed/marked).

With United you really only have to mark Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, maybe Nani (considering even when Giggs starts he has gone down in form).

Not to mention that EPL clubs have better defences than La Liga teams...if you look at Mid Table teams you can notice the quality in defence that differ between both leagues.