Have Ronaldo and Messi reached that level......

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

just those who worship and believe Ronaldo is world class are very wrong.

I don't worship him at all, but I do believe he is world class, as does Jose Mourinho, Alex Ferguson, and plenty of other managers and players that are in the game.

What is your basis for him NOT being world class? I guess average players get recognition as being among the finalist for World Player of the Year, Ballon D'Or, and other awards. I'm not saying the World Player of the Year worth anything because I think the voting system is broken, but amongst the worlds game and to teams it does mean something and finishing top 3 means he is world class. It sounds like your dislike of Cristiano is the reason you don't think he is world class, but I bet your feel Messi is world class don't you?

[COYS]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Messi - No

Cristiano - No

Pointless to even think they will ever achieve that level of impact. In my opinion Zidane was better than Maradona. If I had to choose between Pele, Maradona, or Zidane I would pick Zidane every time. I believe Zidane deserves every right to be considered one of the best 5 players of all time.

If you take into account all the factors involved such as length of career, professionalism, condition, fitness and so on then perhaps there is a good case that Zidane is up their with, perhaps even ahead of Maradona. But from what I saw of both players, Maradona at his peak was a better player than Zidane at his peak.

Don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand Maradonna, absolutely detested him when he was playing the way he robbed England, but ****ing hell he was a absolute genius and so exciting to watch.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by COYS

If you take into account all the factors involved such as length of career, professionalism, condition, fitness and so on then perhaps there is a good case that Zidane is up their with, perhaps even ahead of Maradona. But from what I saw of both players, Maradona at his peak was a better players than Zidane at his peak.



Don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand Maradonna, absolutely detested him when he was playing the way he robbed England, but ****ing hell he was a absolute genius and so exciting to watch.

I'm not trying to rob him of anything but to me he was not all that impressive that I could say he was better than Zidane, or even di Stefano for that matter. I don't think that Maradona could be as effective in todays game because even 15 years ago the level of competition was not on the level it currently is. Zidane pretty much controlled games in todays game and won plenty of titles where as Diego guided Napoli to its one and only Scudetto and thats about it on the club level. The Hand of God is basically what defined his career and cemented his legend, without it he wouldn't be mentioned nearly as much in my opinion.

[COYS]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I don't think that Maradona could be as effective in todays game because even 15 years ago the level of competition was not on the level it currently is.

Players are fitter now, but strengthwise they're fairies - until the last five or maybe ten years I’ve never seen players go to ground so easily or spend so long out through injury.

For all the modern training and dietary ideas and techniques they’re only different but not necessarily any better.

Whilst a yesteryear player may struggle with the fitness of the modern game, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind that a modern day footballer would be completely and utterly out of his depth with the physical nature of the game in the 1970s and 1980s.

Horses for courses.

[AriseForLife]

While I admit that they don't make men like they used to, I think the speed of the game is greater today than in the past. A lot of the time I think players that get hurt just stay out ot milk the paycheck and get a little R&R.

[COYS]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

While I admit that they don't make men like they used to, I think the speed of the game is greater today than in the past. A lot of the time I think players that get hurt just stay out ot milk the paycheck and get a little R&R.

I can't argue with a word of that mate.

[AriseForLife]

I would love to see what would happen if teams/FIFA said that wages were suspended for excessive downtiem due to injuries, I know that would make loads of player comeback sooner, i.e. Van Persie, Rosicky. Players like Eduardo, Ronaldo, et cetera I can understand because those were serious injuries, but even in the case of Ronaldo I love how he is too hurt to play, but not too hurt to get some tranny hookers.

[Sumo]

My gut feeling is that Messi relies heavily upon his team mates in order to succeed. You could argue that he doesn't if you luck at his superb goal against Getafe earlier in the season, but this was so spectacular for a reason, it was a bit of a one off.

On the other hand, Ronaldo just has that ability to single handedly take on teams, do breath-taking skills and score magnificent goals.

[AriseForLife]

I swear I will never hear the end of the Getafe goal. I don't see why people think that goal is so great, I mean it was against Getafe. People talk more about that goal than they do about his performance in El Classico a while back.

[Sumo]

You hear it so much because it was so similar to Maradonnas goal against England. Kinda ironic how I don't think that he's reached Maradonnas standards yet I've just compared him to Maradonna. Nevermind.

Even though it's Getafe, they're a team of 11 players. No matter how good you are, running past 11 players is gonna be difficult.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by sumo0506

You hear it so much because it was so similar to Maradonnas goal against England. Kinda ironic how I don't think that he's reached Maradonnas standards yet I've just compared him to Maradonna. Nevermind.

Even though it's Getafe, they're a team of 11 players. No matter how good you are, running past 11 players is gonna be difficult.

....but he didn't run past 11 players, he ran past 4 players and the keeper. If you look at the reply he used cutbacks so the defenders own momentum took them out of the play, it was like when Cristiano does a stepover and shakes the hell out of a defender to the point of them falling down.

In this Youtube video which was made by a Messi fan, the video actually showcases Cristiano's skill moreso that Messi. At 2:20 of the video Messi did so somethign amazing by spliting the defenders, but other than that CR is just downright scary in his moments.

Cristiano & Lionel

Keep in mind that I dont' even like Cristiano one bit, but I won't deny that the kid is a massive talent and only seems to be getting better.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by sumo0506

Ronaldo yes, Messi no.

What r u smoking?? Neither player is at that level and the closest one is Messi! Inury free Messi would kick Ronaldo's *** any day!

And a consideration to all, can we rightfully compare today's generation of players to the past generations' players? R we overrating Maradona and Pele? There is no doubt that Pele and Maradona were something special, but as the years progress, less and less people are alive who have seen these players week in week out. We have heard from people who watched them how great they were, but maybe their standards of great were less than today's standards. All we have are videos of the players to compare and after recently watching a clip of Maradona's best moments, I can say that I have seen Ronaldinho do similar wonders or even better things. Maybe the standard of goalkeepers and/or defenders were worse at that time compared to today! Was Ronaldinho better than Maradona? I really dont know, i can't say because I havent watched one single live match of Maradona, just some of his "best clips"! And honestly, a clip of any player's best moments can be overrated! For example watch these:

YouTube - Ronaldinho VS Treika
YouTube - Best Footballer
(FYI: I am not saying that the player in these videos is overrated, but can make him seem as one of the best in the world currently!)

[Sumo]

You raise a good point that the only way we can really compare is to have first hand experience of seeing all 4 players play. They also all play in different positions which make it harder to compare, and Messi and Ronaldo are both different ages so there's still lots of time for improvement.

[Matieo10]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Being considered World Class has NOTHING to do with winning World Cups or performing well in them. If that were the case then the entire English National team would be excluded from ever being considered World Class. Players like Just Fontaine who never won a World Cup but has 30 international goals in 21 games, 13 of which came in 1 single World Cup are World Class because they were top performers.

To me performing in the Champions Leagues holds more bearing than how a players performs in the World Cup. Example, many people would say that David Villa is a World Class performer, but he hasn't achieved anything with the Spanish National team that woudl merit mention. Alfredo di Stefano's legend is based SOLELY on his career with Real Madrid and it is UNDEBATABLE that he is a legent and WORLD CLASS despite never playing in a World Cup final and scoring all his goals in qualifiers.

Anyone that thinks being considered World Class has to do with playing with your National Team is mistaken, but then again I guess I am wrong and players like di Stefano aren't world class after-all.

great write-up.

@Foreverblue - oh please do shut up, Ronaldo is world class, muther has almost brought Portugal to a point that we're actually great in tournaments. Not only have we finished second in the last Euro, and 4th in the World Cup, but majority of it being upto players like Ronaldo who were key. I'm not saying he was the only influential player, but he was key in both tournaments for us. You're a fool if you think he hasn't done much for Portugal. As for club, well, Ronaldo's been on some good form the past 3 years, this one being the peak of it. If players like Kaka, Drogba, Messi () were considered world class last season, than they are all in Ronaldo's shadow this season for what he's accomplished.

[Glorious90]

I think they are over that level, as comes to skills. But maybe Maradona and Pele were more consistent. But I am the only one that think they are past their level. Although I think its wrong to compare those old guys to players of the new era, much better in general now.

[RevolutionMikE5]

And Rolandinho

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

great write-up.

@Foreverblue - oh please do shut up, Ronaldo is world class, muther has almost brought Portugal to a point that we're actually great in tournaments. Not only have we finished second in the last Euro, and 4th in the World Cup, but majority of it being upto players like Ronaldo who were key. I'm not saying he was the only influential player, but he was key in both tournaments for us. You're a fool if you think he hasn't done much for Portugal. As for club, well, Ronaldo's been on some good form the past 3 years, this one being the peak of it. If players like Kaka, Drogba, Messi () were considered world class last season, than they are all in Ronaldo's shadow this season for what he's accomplished.

Dont know what u have against Messi, but Messi is world class and so is Ronaldo! In my opinion Messi is better, maybe ur opinion is that Ronaldo is better. But the point is, you cant deny that Messi is at least the second best player in the world currently and a world class player. See the only thing I have against you and others who think that Ronaldo is better, is not because I think Messi is better (you are entitled to your own opinion) but the fact that scoring 40 goals and achieving a title or two in one season makes you better than a player who was injured for about half the season! The only thing he deserves is the football player of the year for THIS YEAR'S PERFORMANCES!! Next year could be a totally different case!

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by BarakatTreka

What r u smoking?? Neither player is at that level and the closest one is Messi! Inury free Messi would kick Ronaldo's *** any day!

Well since you say that with so much conviction, I would love to hear why you think that. First of all Cristiano's game is not similar to Maradona or Pele so a comparison is pointless, and with Messi the kid can't sneeze without breaking something so to say injury free he woudl be better is pointless also because the fact is he is injury prone because of his condition.

Either way I would love to hear why you think Messi is the closer of the bunch and how you consider him to be better than Cristiano! Messi's style is easier to compare to Maradona and Pele because he is South American and he is a CAM just like they were, and he is small in stature like they are, but thats about where the comparisons should end because he is just starting his career and they are legends, well at least Pele is in my opinion.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by LeoMessi19

And Rolandinho

Who's Rolandinho?

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Who's Rolandinho?

I was eager to say that too, but I decided to give him a break!

[Matieo10]

You know what's funny...

That when United lose in the big game, everyone is like, "It was Ronaldo's fault, he should be able to play in big games".

But when Barca lose in a big game, everyone tend to say, "oh well Barca played like lalalalala, there was nothing Messi could do".

You guys are jokes seriously, stop hatin' that's all I'm seein' tbh.

[AriseForLife]

Lol, I know he meant Ronaldinho but it was just to easy.

[AriseForLife]

Actually when Barca lose it is always Ronaldinho's fault even though he isn't even in the game.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but from what I hear Messi was being abused by Marcelo. I don't know but thats what I was told by a friend.

[Matieo10]

P.S. - Robinho has been better than Messi this season, but no one seems to notice, you wanna see what real dribbling skills are and what someone who performs in big games is like, look up Robinho, he's been a beast.

Robinho > Messi

Best Right Winger/Forward in the La Liga this season.

[BarakatTreka]

Originally Posted by Matieo10

You know what's funny...

That when United lose in the big game, everyone is like, "It was Ronaldo's fault, he should be able to play in big games".

But when Barca lose in a big game, everyone tend to say, "oh well Barca played like lalalalala, there was nothing Messi could do".

You guys are jokes seriously, stop hatin' that's all I'm seein' tbh.

1)dont know about the others, but I dont say its Ronaldo's fault when ManU lose!
2)Messi acutally DID play fairly good yesterday. Now compare that to the way Ronaldo plays when ManU play like ****!
3)Can u answer this simple question...Who played better? Messi yesterday or Ronaldo during the CL match against Barca? If you watched the full matches, you should be able to say Messi!!