Have Ronaldo and Messi reached that level......

[den525player]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlue'86

Since when?

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

since when he became a champion's league fanboy

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

yeah, but NOWHERE NEAR? come on

So you guys think the World Cup is the top and most competitive competition in the world? yeah it has it appeals with it being once every 4 years. But are players in their top form when the world cup comes around? no they are usually burnt out by the end of the season. Players never used to play that many games back than.

Players probably want to be at their best at the world cup but it is impossible when all the top players play 70 games a season. That is the reason behind Greece winning euro 04 because all their players have been well rested. Baros being top scorer in euro 04 because he wasn't an automatic first team player at liverpool.

The standard of world cup have dropped in my opinion over the past decade or 2. In 06 teams like Korea getting a 1-1 draw with France. Italy need a last minute penalty to beat australia. italy 1-1 with USA. people might say those results were upsets but in reality players were just tired. The world cup are full of lalalala teams now as well. There are no challenges in the group stages apart from the occasional group of death.

At the end of the day Club teams play so much better than national teams. All the best players play for the top clubs in europe. Which it wasn't the case back only a decade or 2 ago, where only the top players from each country play for the top clubs in their country, apart from the occasional few.

National team on paper might be better than or equal to some club teams but they don't play as well together. I would confidently say a Chelsea or man utd would beat the england national team any day. they would beat italy, brazil, france or Germany as well.

well thats just my opinion. i would like to hear why you guys think the standard of the world cup would be better than club teams

[den525player]

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

Den

who thinks Maradona, Pele and the World Cup are overated and Ronaldo is better than all three

I don't think ronaldo is better maradona or pele. i never said that. i just think the gap of maradona or pele is not as high as what everyone think they are

[smeltzerinho]

I agree with the point about the World Cup standard, I've already said it in this thread....however you said "NOWHERE NEAR" which couldn't be more wrong.

The fact that you say it's now got lalalala teams is wrong too. It's always had it's fair share of lalalala teams ....all competitions do, even the 'champions' league....and some would argue that the world cup being less predictable than it was say 18 years ago, is a good thing. Only my nostalgic brain says it isnt.

I disagree with your examples of results i.e. Italy v Usa etc. etc.....this aint a new thing, look at the opening game of the world cup in 1990....Cameroon beating the World Champions! This was great for the tournament. Upsets always are.


Anyway, this is way off topic.....I voted No, but they could be.

[ForeverBlue'86]

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

I agree with the point about the World Cup standard, I've already said it in this thread....however you said "NOWHERE NEAR" which couldn't be more wrong.

The fact that you say it's now got lalalala teams is wrong too. It's always had it's fair share of lalalala teams ....all competitions do, even the 'champions' league....and some would argue that the world cup being less predictable than it was say 18 years ago, is a good thing. Only my nostalgic brain says it isnt.

I disagree with your examples of results i.e. Italy v Usa etc. etc.....this aint a new thing, look at the opening game of the world cup in 1990....Cameroon beating the World Champions! This was great for the tournament. Upsets always are.

Well, when it happens to us it isn't.

[smeltzerinho]

Yeah, but it's never an upset, more of a expectancy

[ForeverBlue'86]

lol, pretty much.

[den525player]

how far do you guys think zidane is behind pele and maradona. since he was probably the best player for a whole decade. without a doubt. but people still seem to think he is nowhere near pele and maradona.

[zzwampen]

Originally Posted by den525player

how far do you guys think zidane is behind pele and maradona. since he was probably the best player for a whole decade. without a doubt. but people still seem to think he is nowhere near pele and maradona.

he is close...very close...but i don't think he dominated the footballing world the way maradona and pele did...

[den525player]

The overall standard of footballers have raised to a higher level than when maradona and pele were playing. who was behind maradona in his generation of players? platini... who eles?

[zzwampen]

Originally Posted by den525player

The overall standard of footballers have raised to a higher level than when maradona and pele were playing. who was behind maradona in his generation of players? platini... who eles?

rummenigge?

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by den525player

how far do you guys think zidane is behind pele and maradona. since he was probably the best player for a whole decade. without a doubt. but people still seem to think he is nowhere near pele and maradona.

I personally think Zidane is better than Maradona and I have said as much before. People say that Maradona single handedly carried Napoli to the Calcio (their one and only) and that is correct, but at the same time Argentina would have been good with or without Diego because for the most part the Argentines have always been a solid footballing nation.

With the except of Marseille, Zidane has been the focal point of every team he has played on since he left France. His impact could not have been more obvious than the build up to the 2006 World Cup because France damn near didn't even quality until he came out of retirement. He basically won Real Madrid the CL in 2003 (? I think that was the year) and he was a one man show against Brazil in 2006 although I do not think he was the best player of the tournament. Once he left Juventus they basically changed the way they played because of his absence. Sure they added Nedved and he did well, but it was a completely different team with Zidane gone.

It is hard for anyone to use Maradona or Pele as a measuring stick against todays players because the modern player is technically superior to most players fo yester-year at least in my opinion. If you placed an Henry, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cristiano back in the time when Pele played I have no doubt they would have shined, but only select players from back in the day would be able to hold there own in my opinion. I think players like Yashin, Puskas, di Stefano, Fontaine, Muller, Beckenbauer would have all fit in well with the modern player, but I do not think Pele or Maradona would as impactful today as they were then.

[den525player]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I personally think Zidane is better than Maradona and I have said as much before. People say that Maradona single handedly carried Napoli to the Calcio (their one and only) and that is correct, but at the same time Argentina would have been good with or without Diego because for the most part the Argentines have always been a solid footballing nation.

With the except of Marseille, Zidane has been the focal point of every team he has played on since he left France. His impact could not have been more obvious than the build up to the 2006 World Cup because France damn near didn't even quality until he came out of retirement. He basically won Real Madrid the CL in 2003 (? I think that was the year) and he was a one man show against Brazil in 2006 although I do not think he was the best player of the tournament. Once he left Juventus they basically changed the way they played because of his absence. Sure they added Nedved and he did well, but it was a completely different team with Zidane gone.

It is hard for anyone to use Maradona or Pele as a measuring stick against todays players because the modern player is technically superior to most players fo yester-year at least in my opinion. If you placed an Henry, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cristiano back in the time when Pele played I have no doubt they would have shined, but only select players from back in the day would be able to hold there own in my opinion. I think players like Yashin, Puskas, di Stefano, Fontaine, Muller, Beckenbauer would have all fit in well with the modern player, but I do not think Pele or Maradona would as impactful today as they were then.

i totally agree.

[zzwampen]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I personally think Zidane is better than Maradona and I have said as much before. People say that Maradona single handedly carried Napoli to the Calcio (their one and only) and that is correct, but at the same time Argentina would have been good with or without Diego because for the most part the Argentines have always been a solid footballing nation.

With the except of Marseille, Zidane has been the focal point of every team he has played on since he left France. His impact could not have been more obvious than the build up to the 2006 World Cup because France damn near didn't even quality until he came out of retirement. He basically won Real Madrid the CL in 2003 (? I think that was the year) and he was a one man show against Brazil in 2006 although I do not think he was the best player of the tournament. Once he left Juventus they basically changed the way they played because of his absence. Sure they added Nedved and he did well, but it was a completely different team with Zidane gone.

It is hard for anyone to use Maradona or Pele as a measuring stick against todays players because the modern player is technically superior to most players fo yester-year at least in my opinion. If you placed an Henry, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cristiano back in the time when Pele played I have no doubt they would have shined, but only select players from back in the day would be able to hold there own in my opinion. I think players like Yashin, Puskas, di Stefano, Fontaine, Muller, Beckenbauer would have all fit in well with the modern player, but I do not think Pele or Maradona would as impactful today as they were then.

I'm absolutely sure Pelé and Maradona would have a big impact today. I mean if they had the physique and training and all that which is 100 times better today than it was back then they would be world class players. I mean you can't question Maradona's talent, because he basically lived just on his talent. And if you would put that talent in to a modern player's body he would be one of the best players in the world.

[den525player]

actually i think maradona would self destruct if he played in this day and age. He would be all coked up and partying in europe, he would of been drugged tested way earlier than he did. he would be one of those troubled stars with loads of talents and fail to go to training

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by den525player

The overall standard of footballers have raised to a higher level than when maradona and pele were playing. who was behind maradona in his generation of players? platini... who eles?

Well considering he played from 75 until 96 you can pretty much count any player during that period as his contemporaries. Franz Beckenbauer left Germany in 1977 when he was still considered the best defender on the planet and when he left the US in 1980 the same opinion held.

Platini, Zico, Rossi, Cruyff, Gullit, Mattheus, Papin, et cetera.

Maradona can't technically be compared to players of the 2000s or even the late 90s because he was over the hill but kept playing. In my opinion he should have stopped playing after Sevilla.

[zzwampen]

Originally Posted by den525player

actually i think maradona would self destruct if he played in this day and age. He would be all coked up and partying in europe, he would of been drugged tested way earlier than he did. he would be one of those troubled stars with loads of talents and fail to go to training

or the opposite...he would have much staff around him and assistants and stuff to help him with his problem...he would go to rehab etc..



i'm pretty sure he wouldn't do drugs and stuff if he played today...

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by zzwampen

I'm absolutely sure Pelé and Maradona would have a big impact today. I mean if they had the physique and training and all that which is 100 times better today than it was back then they would be world class players. I mean you can't question Maradona's talent, because he basically lived just on his talent. And if you would put that talent in to a modern player's body he would be one of the best players in the world.

That's just it though, I am not talking about giving them the training or anything modern. I am talking about taking them at there prime and sticking them in the modern game and leaving it at that.

I never questioned his talent, I haven't questioned anything about him, I just feel Zidane is and was a better player.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by den525player

actually i think maradona would self destruct if he played in this day and age. He would be all coked up and partying in europe, he would of been drugged tested way earlier than he did. he would be one of those troubled stars with loads of talents and fail to go to training

He would be banned like Mutu was because EVERYONE knows Diego was a stash of coke with arms and legs that just happened to be able to play soccer.

[AriseForLife]

What I am talking about ZZ would be like the Jose+10 commercial from Adidas around the time of the World Cup. Taking players as there were and putting them in to modern times.

[den525player]

i think before he dies he will tell the world that we was on drugs through his whole career but the argentina fa covered his tracks.

[zzwampen]

Originally Posted by den525player

i think before he dies he will tell the world that we was on drugs through his whole career but the argentina fa covered his tracks.

well then it's even more amazing that he was so good...i mean if he was on drugs most of the time



i mean he didn't base his play on speed, strength or stamina, so he wouldn't really have used performance-enhancing drugs...

[smeltzerinho]

Originally Posted by den525player

i think before he dies he will tell the world that we was on drugs through his whole career but the argentina fa covered his tracks.

how very presumptious of you you just keep kicking maradona until he somehow matches your ideology of the overrated being you think he is.

Can't help but think of COYS quote on you not talking about players you've never seen, yet here you are....2 pages later spouting, at what most, can be described as wishful

Maradona is a legend. < full stop, these comparisons on what would happen now are TOTALLY POINTLESS....it's like saying Best would be in the Priory every week etc. etc. POINTLESS.

[den525player]

Originally Posted by zzwampen

well then it's even more amazing that he was so good...i mean if he was on drugs most of the time



i mean he didn't base his play on speed, strength or stamina, so he wouldn't really have used performance-enhancing drugs...

i think i've said all along its drugs like cocaine or what he got done for in 94 Ephedrine doping not steriods.

[den525player]

Originally Posted by smeltzerinho27

how very presumptious of you you just keep kicking maradona until he somehow matches your ideology of the overrated being you think he is.

Can't help but think of COYS quote on you not talking about players you've never seen, yet here you are....2 pages later spouting, at what most, can be described as wishful

Maradona is a legend. < full stop, these comparisons on what would happen now are TOTALLY POINTLESS....it's like saying Best would be in the Priory every week etc. etc. POINTLESS.

actually did i say he was a bad player? did i say he is not a legend? no i don't think so. I think you got my meaning of "over rated" wrong. i meant him being over rated as in his god status in football is over rated. he should just be a great. not the untouchable he is

[zzwampen]

Originally Posted by den525player

i think i've said all along its drugs like cocaine or what he got done for in 94 Ephedrine doping not steriods.

which really isn't performance enhancing...



does it make him worse as a person or role model?

- yes, probably


does it make him less of a player?

- hell no