Arsenal FC Thread

[st3adman]

Originally Posted by trenty21

Eduardo is sooooo overrated






Spurs fan leaves the room hehehe (was only joking)

yeah sure

[mikahel]

Originally Posted by trenty21

Eduardo is sooooo overrated






Spurs fan leaves the room hehehe (was only joking)

He's actually underated but shows that you know nothing about Eduardo or Arsenal. Just another one of those idiots speaking out of term.

[MessiFanatic]

Eduardo for me is our strongest out and out striker without a doubt. His composure in front of goal and finishing ability was the best in the premiership before his injury, I just hope he gets back there.

[st3adman]

Originally Posted by mikahel

He's actually underated but shows that you know nothing about Eduardo or Arsenal. Just another one of those idiots speaking out of term.

i just realised what he wrote in yellow

[mikahel]

Originally Posted by MessiFanatic

Eduardo for me is our strongest out and out striker without a doubt. His composure in front of goal and finishing ability was the best in the premiership before his injury, I just hope he gets back there.

Totally agree with you.

[Jamieb08]

Originally Posted by trenty21

Eduardo is sooooo overrated






Spurs fan leaves the room hehehe (was only joking)

you what overrated he is great striker he would have scored quite a lot of goals for Arsenal if it wasn't for the injury he will be a key player Arsenal next season you'll see

[mikahel]

Originally Posted by Jamieb08

you what overrated he is great striker he would have scored quite a lot of goals for Arsenal if it wasn't for the injury he will be a key player Arsenal next season you'll see

Even the man united fan knows what he's talking about

[Jamieb08]

Originally Posted by mikahel

Even the man united fan knows what he's talking about

lol thanks

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by 17_Gers4Life

it's goal.com but yeh, what u all think?

I wouldn't part with Kolo and £6M for Micah Richards. I would rather have Richards for £10M in a straight transfer and keep Kolo. Either way isn't another rumor form Goal.com so I just ignore them.

Originally Posted by st3adman

he definitely wont be getting 19 goals next season, unless he plays as a second striker (which looks unlikely). Im sure though he can keep up with his performances, only thing im worried about is if he can hack playing over 45+ games in the PL, CL and FA cups.

The thing about the wage demand made me lol, 80,000 a week minus tax must still be a hell of a lot to get and yet some players are still not happy.

Only time will tell.

Originally Posted by Makoun

Never really hard of this lad before. Has anyone seen him play?

I've seen him a handful of times and he wasn't all that impressive to me, but again it was only a handful of times and that isn't enough to make judgement on a player.

Originally Posted by MessiFanatic

This isn't really to do with me liking Villa more, it's to do with the fact he's a better player. I don't think this is one of those cases that's even arguable in most peoples eyes either. It's like arguing that Silva is better than Messi. Both undoubtedly quality players, but in different leagues. I didn't mean to cause offence, but alot of the time when I read your opinions it just looks like the sort of thing I'm sick of reading on the forums when people claim a less popular players is "better" just so they can then act superior and claim they watch more football and nobody else knows what they're talking about. As I said, that could not be the case here, but surely you'd agree, even if you don't think it's the case for Arsenal, Villa is the better player?
I've seen Huntelaar play in person actually, and he's an impressive player, but he isn't in Villa's league. If Huntelaar isn't scoring goals, he isn't doing that much, Villa on the other hand can, and with midfielders who can score goals, he'd fit in well.

It doesn't really matter if Villa is better or not, I didn't make my post saying who was better, I made my post on who I THINK is better for the club. I don't agree that Villa is the better player because I wouldn't compare them since their styles of play are completely different. I don't compare players unless there is a similarity and these two are not similar other than they both play striker.

As for Huntelaar not doing much when he isn't scoring goals, that is fine with me. Henry didn't do much when he was involved in the offense and I don't have a problem with that.

As for the bolded statement, in my post did I ever say anything about Huntelaar being a better player, I simply said he would be better for Arsenal. I don't do what others on this board do. When I make a statement it is based on my opinion and if it isn't opinion then I back up a claim with factual information. I won't spite a persons opinion for the sake of being the opposite of the masses.

Lets look at Eduardo's stats a different way shall we? 15 Goals in 24 Starts. A goals to games ratio not that much worse than Adebayor's 62 in 114 starts, however Adebayor was never deployed as a winger. His predatory instincts he showed whilst playing for us are undeniable. He's easily the best finisher we have at the club, and when he was through 1on1 I never thought "He's gonna miss" as I frequently do with the others. Have you actually seen all Eduardo's games for Arsenal? (I can ask patronising questions too). I'd question if you had.

I'm not sure where you are getting 15 goals in 24 starts. I am refering to his domestic games only. I do not look at Carling Cup because those don't help us in the league. However even looking at all of last season in all competitions he had 12 goals in 31 games which is .38 goals/game which is still lower than Adebayor. I haven't seen ALL of his games for Arsenal beacuse Carling Cup and FA Cups don't come on in the US, but I have seen more than enough games to make an appraisal of his quality and I don't think he is the best finisher as the rest of you seem to think. He is good, but I go off of strike rate and his strike rate thus far is lower than that of Adebayor, Bendtner and Van Persie.

[quote]I suppose Bendtner isn't an out and out striker either then? I mean he's been played out on the left wing himself. Wenger has stated he likes playing developing strikers out wide so they learn the ability to "beat their man" until Eduardo has finished developing you don't know where he sees him playing. Gibbs is / was a left winger, who has only played at left back for us, that doesn't mean he'll only ever play left back. Eboue played right back, but then moved forward to right midfield. You can't know what Wenger has planned for younger players in the future, neither can I, except he has said he thinks Strikers who play on the wing for a while develop skills they wouldn't otherwise.

Bendtner is an out and out striker. I consider him and Adebayor to be our only true strikers, the rest I would call center forwards or forwards. You don't need to explain Wengers philosophy to me because I already know it, it still doesn't change my opinion of Eduardo.

[quote]From all the interviews and what I've seen of him so far I'd put money on the fact he never acts as childishly as RVP does.

Only time will tell.

Oh and on the issue of money, these guys have a limited time to ply their trade at the highest level and make good money. Arshavin is perfectly reasonable to expect to earn a higher amount when at Arsenal then when at Zenit. The tax thing is something we're going to see happening with alot of players.

He knew well ahead of time that England had a higher tax rate than Russia. It's his own damn fault for not paying attention to that piece of PUBLiC information.

Originally Posted by mikahel

Give EDUARDO 5 chances and he'll scored 4 or even 5 goals.

Even though I've only seen a little bit of Eduardo since he arrived at the emirates, he really impressed me. My favirote arsenal player.

His strike rate says he will score 3 or 4 goals.

If you haven't seen but a little of him how can you make such statements as if they are fact? Thats like saying I have only seen 3 games of Eduardo, but he is better than Samuel Eto'o at finishing despite undeniable proof stating the opposite.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by MessiFanatic

His composure in front of goal and finishing ability was the best in the premiership before his injury, I just hope he gets back there.

Not starting an argument, but I am curious as to what factors you are using to make that statement?

I do hope he gets back to preinjury form, but I am still curious how you can say he was the best in the EPL pre-injury when that isn't the truth based on facts and not opinion.

Last season in 26 appearances in all competitions he scored 8 goals so how does that equate to best finisher in the EPL? That's .3 goals/game.

[MessiFanatic]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Not starting an argument, but I am curious as to what factors you are using to make that statement?

I do hope he gets back to preinjury form, but I am still curious how you can say he was the best in the EPL pre-injury when that isn't the truth based on facts and not opinion.

Last season in 26 appearances in all competitions he scored 8 goals so how does that equate to best finisher in the EPL? That's .3 goals/game.

I remember just after his injury The Guardian did something on his 1 on 1s to goal ratio and it was better than anyone else in the league. I think he'd converted 86% of 1 on 1 or something, I'll have a look for it.


And on the Arshavin thing, we've just had our tax rates go up, so when he came he earned more than he does now, you are now taxed 50% of your income over £100k per annum, and that was a big rise.

[MessiFanatic]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

It doesn't really matter if Villa is better or not, I didn't make my post saying who was better, I made my post on who I THINK is better for the club. I don't agree that Villa is the better player because I wouldn't compare them since their styles of play are completely different. I don't compare players unless there is a similarity and these two are not similar other than they both play striker.

That's a cop out, you can compare two players with different play styles, Thierry Henry for instance, was a better player than Ruud van Nistelrooy in most peoples minds. Completely different styles, both world class, but one was clearly, better. Anyway, lets assume that's irrelevant for now...

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

As for Huntelaar not doing much when he isn't scoring goals, that is fine with me. Henry didn't do much when he was involved in the offense and I don't have a problem with that.

As for the bolded statement, in my post did I ever say anything about Huntelaar being a better player, I simply said he would be better for Arsenal. I don't do what others on this board do. When I make a statement it is based on my opinion and if it isn't opinion then I back up a claim with factual information. I won't spite a persons opinion for the sake of being the opposite of the masses.

There's a difference between not doing much when you aren't scoring goals, and not doing much when you aren't "involved in the offense". Thierry has an amazing passing game and created countless goals for Pires and Ljungberg coming past him from Midfield. His assists stat at the end of the season was always very impressive when you looked at his goals scored next to it. The same isn't true of Huntelaar. He won't get 10-15 assists a season. If he isn't scoring 20-25 goals in the league, he isn't doing his job.
Just compare Klaas to Villa this season. Klaas has 8 goals in 20 appearances in the league for a team that finished 2nd. Villa has 28 in 33 for a team that finished 6th. Villa also had 6 assists compared to Klaas' 2. Villa has a better goals and assists to games ratio than Klaas, playing for a worse team, in the same league.

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I'm not sure where you are getting 15 goals in 24 starts. I am refering to his domestic games only. I do not look at Carling Cup because those don't help us in the league. However even looking at all of last season in all competitions he had 12 goals in 31 games which is .38 goals/game which is still lower than Adebayor. I haven't seen ALL of his games for Arsenal beacuse Carling Cup and FA Cups don't come on in the US, but I have seen more than enough games to make an appraisal of his quality and I don't think he is the best finisher as the rest of you seem to think. He is good, but I go off of strike rate and his strike rate thus far is lower than that of Adebayor, Bendtner and Van Persie.

That's his total goals in competitive games. So we are just ruling out everything apart from the premiership now then? The FA cup, Champions League and even the Carling Cup are all major competitions. We can all make stats favour our opinions though, so if you've decided "some games don't count", then I'm sure I could go through the games in which those players scored theirs and find reason to say "Oh, that goal doesn't count.". Even with those others games his strike rate is slightly worse, but the fact that you don't even rate Eduardo's composure and finishing as much as not only I, but pretty much anyone who's seen the guy play 10-15 games does makes me question your opinion on this one.

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Bendtner is an out and out striker. I consider him and Adebayor to be our only true strikers, the rest I would call center forwards or forwards. You don't need to explain Wengers philosophy to me because I already know it, it still doesn't change my opinion of Eduardo.

What do you consider Eduardo then? His best attributes are his composure in front of goal and his finishing. What role does he fill in your mind?

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Only time will tell.

Hardly worth responding to, the guy just isn't like that, I've read enough interviews with him and seen him play enough times (For Zenit and Russia) to see that he's not that sort of person.

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

He knew well ahead of time that England had a higher tax rate than Russia. It's his own damn fault for not paying attention to that piece of PUBLiC information.

The tax rate changed after he joined. It isn't his fault.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by MessiFanatic

I remember just after his injury The Guardian did something on his 1 on 1s to goal ratio and it was better than anyone else in the league. I think he'd converted 86% of 1 on 1 or something, I'll have a look for it.


And on the Arshavin thing, we've just had our tax rates go up, so when he came he earned more than he does now, you are now taxed 50% of your income over £100k per annum, and that was a big rise.

I know it was recently raised, but when the deal was signed England's tax rate was still over the 13% that Russia has. His yearly wages are still higher in England than they were in Russia, but he isn't happy because his weekly take home is lower. It's a bit odd, but oh well it isn't my check.

[MessiFanatic]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

I know it was recently raised, but when the deal was signed England's tax rate was still over the 13% that Russia has. His yearly wages are still higher in England than they were in Russia, but he isn't happy because his weekly take home is lower. It's a bit odd, but oh well it isn't my check.

The problem for him is he was taking home more than he was in Russia before we raised our taxes, now he's taking home less. It's a valid point to raise, and I don't think he'll be the last player.

[efterklang]

If you don't think Eduardo is an out and out striker, you're on some serious drugs.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by efterklang

If you don't think Eduardo is an out and out striker, you're on some serious drugs.

You are entitled to your opinion. A person isn't on drugs because they don't think the same way as you do.

I guess you also think Thierry Henry is an out and out striker also don't you?

[MessiFanatic]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

You are entitled to your opinion. A person isn't on drugs because they don't think the same way as you do.

I guess you also think Thierry Henry is an out and out striker also don't you?

This is one occasion on which you're gonna have to conceed defeat mate... Eduardo is not in the same mold as Thierry Henry. He's a poacher, with admittedly, more skill on the ball than most poachers, but he's a poacher nonetheless.

Eduardo has more in common than Van Nistelrooy than Henry, and Eduardo is an out and out striker. You've admitted you haven't seen all his games for the club, so maybe you could conceed that people who have seen more of him know more about him? Just a thought...

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by MessiFanatic

This is one occasion on which you're gonna have to conceed defeat mate... Eduardo is not in the same mold as Thierry Henry. He's a poacher, with admittedly, more skill on the ball than most poachers, but he's a poacher nonetheless.

Eduardo has more in common than Van Nistelrooy than Henry, and Eduardo is an out and out striker. You've admitted you haven't seen all his games for the club, so maybe you could conceed that people who have seen more of him know more about him? Just a thought...

I'm not conceding anything because I wasn't aware that this was a contest. It is my opinion and that will never change. If you and the rest don't agree that is fine, but I don't and I know many other that don't consider Eduardo and out and out striker because he isn't one.

Did I ever say anything about Eduardo and Henry being in the same mold mate? No. I simply asked the previous person if he considered Henry to be an out and out striker. Your opinion of Henry also differs from mine and thats fine because it is YOUR opinion.

Yes I admitted that I haven't seen every game of his, but I have seen more than enough to say that he isn't an out and out striker. Just because a person has seen him a couple more times than I have doesn't mean they know more about him than I do, it just means their opinion of him is different than mine and nothing more.

Just a heads up but you are wasting your time arguing this point because I have said it about him since he first took the field in an ARsenal shirt and my opinion will not change.

[AriseForLife]

Here are some pretty nice rumors from Setanta.

Edin Dzeko would consider Arsenal, but with the price that has been set on him I can't see us paying that much for him unless Adebayor is sold to Milan, a possibility now that Ricardo has moved on to Real Madrid.

Dzeko open to Gunners as Milan swoop

Looks like the press has linked up with Veloso yet again. Last season is when I wanted him to join, but his price was too high for a player that dropped form considerably, nevertheless I would consider him as a suitable replacement over Matuidi or Toulalan although Toulalan remains my favorite unless Diarra becomes available suddenly.

Veloso: my future has not been decided

I knew we were linked with Chiellini, but the part about Buffon was news to me. I would have loved to have Giorgio since he can also play fullback with great effect.

Buffon agent rules out Gunners move

[efterklang]

No, I don't think Henry is an out and out striker. However, that's not at all relevant to the discussion, so I don't really know why that question was asked.

You can continue to keep to your opinion, but I should warn you that being so unwilling to change is a bad thing. Often times our opinions are ill informed. To simply refuse to change out of pride or whatever is silly.

And I don't mean to be a lalalalalalalala but someone who has more experience with something (e.g. seen many more matches featuring a certain player) most often means they know more about it than someone who hasn't been as exposed to whatever.

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by efterklang

No, I don't think Henry is an out and out striker. However, that's not at all relevant to the discussion, so I don't really know why that question was asked.

It was simply a question. I didn't say it had to have anything to do with the "other" discussion. Have you never been asked a question that is separate from something you are talking about?

You can continue to keep to your opinion, but I should warn you that being so unwilling to change is a bad thing. Often times our opinions are ill informed. To simply refuse to change out of pride or whatever is silly.

Don't preach to me. My opinion isn't ill informed. I look at what I see and my opinion is based on that. Pride has nothing to do with it. The fact that I think Eduardo plays like a forward more than a striker in the EPL is all that I need to base my opinion. His poor strike rate also backs up my claim. The way he moves on the field when he has the ball, etc.

And I don't mean to be a lalalalalalalala but someone who has more experience with something (e.g. seen many more matches featuring a certain player) most often means they know more about it than someone who hasn't been as exposed to whatever.

A person that has seen Eduardo play 20 times compared to a person that has seen him play 13 times is hardly more qualified to make a judgment. Again if you and the other person don't agree with my opinion that is fine, I really don't care if you don't agree. That is the wonderful thing about opinions, you are free to have whatever kind you'd like.

[MessiFanatic]

You've just made it clear to pretty much everyone that debating anything with you is pointless, you have no interested in listening to people who are more informed (which I am, I've seen him more times than you) about an issue, and some bizzare sense of pride or self righteousness doesn't let you actually hear anybody else. I generally enjoy debating with people, and have an olalalalalah) mind to information I hear, but with you it's pointless.

Veloso, Buffon and Chiellini won't happen, not because I don't like them, but because they'll cost an arm and a leg. Dzeko might though.

[Thade2532]

i think Dzeko will join only if Adebayor leaves, if no strikers leave then i can't see Wenger bringing in a new striker as im sure he's already said that we have enoguh strikers.

[efterklang]

Where would Adebayor go? Milan don't seem to be interested in him. Funnily enough, I read that they are interested in Dzeko now.

[MessiFanatic]

City apparently were interested, but I don't think he wanted to go there. He doesn't seem to just want to go anywhere, I think he'll only leave for a more successful club.
He's not actively bad now, he's just not great at the moment. I do worry that he'll stifle Bendtner somewhat though, they're very similar players and based on last season Ade isn't good enough to start for us in my opinion. Maybe we can see Theo and Vela given a few games, I haven't seen as much of Vela up top as I'd like to.