[PhysX-slowdowns] Found CAUSE, found TRIGGER, found SOLUTION!

[GODzillaGSPB]

Yesterday and today I tested for hours to find out what was causing the PhysX-slowdowns on my system, which consists of the following components:

Core2Quad Q9550
Geforce GTX 260 with 216 shader cores
2x2GB DDR2-666 memory
Windows Vista Business 64bit SP1

First: I keep my drivers up to date, I keep my system clean and my harddiscs defraged, or in short, my system never crashes and is 100% stable.


PART 1: THE CAUSE

Fact: IF you experience PhysX-slowdowns than this is not a bug of the game, but your PhysX-software/driver not functioning properly which results in the CPU processing the PhysX-effects which in effect results in bad frames per second (fps) in the game.

So the cause of the slowdowns is that your PhysX-systemsoftware doesn't work.

But how can this happen? Off to...


PART 2: THE TRIGGER

I tried multiple things trying to trigger the PhysX-software to malfunction, first here are a few things that DON'T trigger it:

- multiple PC restarts
- multiple PC shutdowns and restarts
- multiple restarts of Mirrors Edge

...do NOT trigger the software to malfunction

THE TRIGGER IS: Another Unreal Engine 3 based game. Yes you read correctly!

In my case it is Mass Effect, another EA game (although it has been developed by Bioware "A division of EA"). When I started this game, played for a few minutes, then exited again and started Mirrors Edge the PhysX-slowdowns where back again.

Both games use the files "PhysXCore.dll", "PhysXLoader.dll" and "NxCooking.dll" to provide the game with PhysX-support, but I noticed that both games use different versions of these files. So that's the problem, maybe loading an older version (in Mass Effect) somehow messes with the PhysX-software.

Disabling the PhysX-hardware support in the Mass Effect config files proved uneffective, the problem still exists.

How to solve this problem? Off to...


PART 3: THE SOLUTION (or let's say a workaround)

I tried different things to solve the problem. First a list of things that DO NOT solve the problem:

- a restart of the PC
- a shutdown and restart of the PC
- disabling and enabling PhysX in Mirrors Edge
- disabling and enabling PhysX in the driver

...DO NOT solve the problem.

THE SOLUTION IS: A reinstallation of the PhysX-system software!

You don't even have to restart the PC. Simply uninstall the PhysX-software and reinstall it.

After I do that and start Mirrors Edge again the PhysX-slowdowns are gone...until I start Mass Effect again, which wrecks the PhysX-software again.

I confirmed all this in multiple tests, it's true.


PART 4: CONCLUSION

What should I say? An EA game wrecks another EA game. Has anybody ever heard of such a stupid thing?

We need a fix, either from EA, or from Nvidia. I want to play both games and I don't want to reinstall the PhysX-software over and over again (I even placed the installer on my desktop, omg ).


I hope this helps the people who suffer from PhysX-slowdowns.

[Latest tests, as of May the 4th 2009]

Recent tests revealed that this problem still exists. Now, with a fresh installation of Windows Vista 64bit and the latest graphic driver, Mirrors Edge still shows bad performance with PhysX enabled when another PhysX supported game had been started before. In my case it is Mass Effect.

I really wonder if EA is going to fix it, but I bet they wont. They had their share of money from the sales, case closed.






For problems with ATi graphic card + Ageia PhysX-card

Thanks to CrisisDog for this hint: [PhysX-slowdowns] Found CAUSE, found TRIGGER, found SOLUTION!

[GODzillaGSPB]

But there are also good news: Non Unreal Engine 3 games seem not to trigger the PhysX-software malfunction.

I tested GTA IV, Prince of Persia and Dead Space and after each game I started Mirrors Edge. I experienced no PhysX-slowdowns so far.

Even more evidence that just Unreal Engine 3 based games are affecting the PhysX system software.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I continued testing later this day. I noticed that both games - Mass Effect and Mirrors Edge - use the files "PhysXCore.dll", "PhysXLoader.dll" and "NxCooking.dll" for providing the game with PhysX support.

However Mirrors Edge uses files with the version number 2.8.0.7 while Mass Effect uses an older version 2.7.2.5.

So I tried to trick the game: I copied the Mirrors Edge files into the Mass Effect folder, but it didn't work. The game doesn't even start with the newer PhysX files.

Then I tried to disable PhysX-support in Mass Effect. I went to "\documentes\bioware\mass effect\config\BIOEngine.cfg" and changed the entry

bDisablePhysXHardwareSupport=False

to

bDisablePhysXHardwareSupport=True

No success either, starting Mass Effect still messes up the PhysX software which needs to be reinstalled again in order to play Mirrors Edge with no PhysX-slowdowns.

This is really strange and becoming even stranger as my tests continue. I'm afraid I'm currently out of ideas.

How can it be that one PhysX-games messes with another? And how can it be that there is no official reaction as of now?

Take Securom, the copy protection, for instance: I have several games installed which use this copy protection and as far as I know the securom driver is located in one single folder. I also noticed that when I start different games the securom files in this folder change in size and version. But does this mess up the copy protection? No it doesn't, it works without flaws.

So why doesn't PhysX work this way?

[xp3nd4bl3]

To the OP, you probably saved me hours of frustration. I cannot thank you enough.

[GODzillaGSPB]

You're welcome, but I'm still not satisfied with my "solution".

Plus a user in another forum said that he tested my theory with Mass Effect and GoW and cannot reproduce it.

So maybe this is a very rare bug which makes a possible solution by either Nvidia or Dice rather unlikely.

Anyway, sometime next week I will format c: and reinstall Windows, just to make sure this isn't some kind of flaw caused by changing my graphic card from ATi to Nvidia a month ago.

[flatfroggerx]

Originally Posted by GODzillaGSPB

Take Securom, the copy protection, for instance: I have several games installed which use this copy protection and as far as I know the securom driver is located in one single folder. I also noticed that when I start different games the securom files in this folder change in size and version. But does this mess up the copy protection? No it doesn't, it works without flaws.

So why doesn't PhysX work this way?

Securom isn't just in 1 place, you can't even see most of the places its hooked in to because of its rootkiting abilities.

[fatel_error]

I've been having the same slowdown as you guys. But I'm using a Ageia PhysX card as I have an ATI 4870. I just did a clean install of windows xp SP3. Since nvidia stopped including the drivers for the Ageia card, I have to install the PhysX system software 8.09.04 with the drivers and then update to 9.09.0010. I selected the Ageia card in the PhysX settings. Then I installed ME. Got major slowdown with PhysX on. Works great with it off. After reading your posts, I tried uninstalling the PhysX software and drivers, and used Driver Sweeper to clean up the remanents. At this point, tried this both without restarting my PC. Then I reinstalled the PhysX software and drivers. I'm still getting massive slowdown with PhysX turned on. This is a shame as I bought a PhysX card just for this game. Did this with and without the patch installed. Also, I have not installed any other games since I reinstalled XP.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I'm sorry, but I got zero experience with Ageia PhysX cards. Mhm...in your control panel, there should be settings for your Ageia software where you can either set the graphic card or the Ageia card as PhysX accelerator. Did you try that?

[fatel_error]

That's what I've been doing and no luck.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Then I'm out of ideas I'm afraid. Your only chance could be the official support from EA or DICE, if there is one...

[Toxicitizen]

I went to the small troubles of resetting my password simply because I felt compelled to log in ( did not even remember I had an EA account..) and tell you, sir, that you win the internet.
Here is your congratulatory certificate of accreditation (click it):
You Win the Internet!


I have been going nuts over the past few days wondering why the Physx in Mirror's Edge slowed the frame rate to a crawl, and I was starting to fear that my brand new system simply wasn't as good as I thought it was
( a freaking quad core wiht 8 gigs of RAM and a GeForce GTX 280!!!! )
So I've searched only to find that other people had the same problem, but no one had solutions. Until I came across your post.
It just so happens that I also have Mass Effect installed right now. I'm playing the Steam version of the game and sure enough, I reinstalled Physx and the game runs perfectly! So thank you for your hard work, and know that it benefited another troubled gamer!

[GODzillaGSPB]

Thanks, you're welcome. I'm still not sure this is a PhysX-only-problem.

I downloaded a PhysX-test - from oZoneMark - and this test is not affected by this problem. It still runs with the same fps before and after I play another PhysX-game.

Strange...but as I said before the final "test" is still about to happen in a few weeks when I have time to do a format c:\ and reinstall windows. This will tell if it's the game or me having changed the graphic card from ATi to Nvidia without a complete reinstall.

[Hysterian]

HI, I havent same problem and im at ATI, it is on physx (SDK) i thing but there is not a problem in ut engine dead space and prince of persia from second post havnt physx, they have HAVOK. if game has HAVOK then i can play it, if game has physx, i got error and kill app :-/
this problem i havent at begin, but any lalalala update physx do it and reinstall driver dont work. Old uninstaled driver has a registry junk but if in a registry is anything next i dont know. maybe i have problem because i have 64bit system (vista). maybe any physx version saving files to another position or there is another registry key. but u must have clean xp, in better way any type of online-backup program (like shadow user) and tracking installation physx versions (more is better). maybe thinstall show this or old norton ghost (i dont thing the same backup thing, this is different). U must have snapshot before and after install and compare it. But i havent energy to play with it, reinstalling drivers killing me and i havent any more ideas.
excuse my english

[Toxicitizen]

Well hey, you seem to know your stuff, so if you feel you should keep on looking, I won't argue.
But as far as my particular case was concerned, it seems like you hit the nail square on the head!

I guess I'll just have to not play Mirror's Edge until I'm done with Mass Effect or vice versa. lol

[mikeopam]

Yep, same exact problem here also. I also have to un-install/re-install physx to switch between Mass Effect and Mirror's Edge. A real hassle and it does sure need to be fixed. I doubt very much you clean installing Windows is going to fix this problem.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Well to be honest I could test my theory now, because I recently reinstalled Windows after a format c:\.

But neither do I have Mass Effect installed, nor Mirrors Edge. I'm currently too busy to test it.

As soon as I find some time I'll report back and tell you if the Windows reinstall did help, or not.

[JimmyTheCannon]

That sounds plausible. Except... I don't have Mass Effect installed, at all. I do have several other games, and I'm not sure which ones use UT3, but I didn't run any of them before or during my Mirror's Edge play. I still got slowdowns when PhysX was enabled, massive framerate crawl. Once I disabled PhysX it worked fine, of course. Perhaps that's not the only thing that triggers the PhysX problems?

[GODzillaGSPB]

Yeah, there could be very well more than just one trigger for this problem, I agree.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Well well, better late then never I guess. Some time has passed since I started this topic and meanwhile I've reinstalled my operating system, making sure any possible ATi graphic driver leftovers are history.

Though a few more months had to pass before I finally decided to reinstall Mirrors Edge yesterday.

I'll make it short: The problem is gone.

So it was either really caused by ATi graphic driver leftovers (as I suspected) on my old Windows installation, or the problem was fixed by any of the latest Nvidia drivers and / or PhysX system software updates.

Guess this kinda concludes this topic, happy gaming.

[mikeopam]

The problem still exists for me many drivers revisions later and I've never had an ATI card in my current system. Trying switching back and forth between Mass Effect and Mirror's Edge and I bet you encounter the problem again.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Well on my old installation the problem happened much easier. I just had to start Mirrors Edge twice. Or another UE3-game.

In order to start Mirrors Edge a second time AND play with PhysX I always had to reinstall the PhysX-system-software before I start the game.

So any UE3-game started after the first start of Mirrors Edge caused this problem.

Now, when I start Mirrors Edge, two times, three times and more there is no more the problem of PhysX-slowdowns. Mass Effect would just be another trigger. Of course you could still be right, but I'm not going to install Mass Effect just to ruin my current Mirrors Edge game.

I will test it as soon as I have finished the game.

[CrisisDog]

Originally Posted by fatel_error

I've been having the same slowdown as you guys. But I'm using a Ageia PhysX card as I have an ATI 4870. I just did a clean install of windows xp SP3. Since nvidia stopped including the drivers for the Ageia card, I have to install the PhysX system software 8.09.04 with the drivers and then update to 9.09.0010. I selected the Ageia card in the PhysX settings. Then I installed ME. Got major slowdown with PhysX on. Works great with it off. After reading your posts, I tried uninstalling the PhysX software and drivers, and used Driver Sweeper to clean up the remanents. At this point, tried this both without restarting my PC. Then I reinstalled the PhysX software and drivers. I'm still getting massive slowdown with PhysX turned on. This is a shame as I bought a PhysX card just for this game. Did this with and without the patch installed. Also, I have not installed any other games since I reinstalled XP.

I've had a few heated emails back and forth with Nvidia in regards to this issue, ending up with a "We'll contact the second level support engineers" and never receiving another replay from them. From my experience, I can unofficially say they do not support the Ageia PhysX cards with ATI.

HOWEVER...

I was able to get my Ageia PhysX card working with my ATI Crossfire setup by uninstalling the PhysX software package that came with Mirror's Edge and replaced it with the following version of 8.04.25:

http://developer.download.nvidia.com...emSoftware.exe

Works like a charm. You will get a notification in the game that no PhysX hardware was found, and you'll need to clarify that you do indeed wish to enable hardware PhysX support in the game preferences, but it worked perfectly fine for me.

(If you've got Unreal Tournament 3, do yourself a favor and make sure to download the Nvidia PhysX Map pack, it also works great with this revision of the PhysX software and the Ageia / ATI card combination.)

[GODzillaGSPB]

Originally Posted by mikeopam

The problem still exists for me many drivers revisions later and I've never had an ATI card in my current system. Trying switching back and forth between Mass Effect and Mirror's Edge and I bet you encounter the problem again.

Well, you're right. I'm currently playing Mass Effect again and when I start it and then start Mirrors Edge the game runs slow again.

STUUUUUUUPID! Why can't they fix that abviously one PhysX-game influences the other???

[Fenjin]

Hey
I've been having problems with this game as well.. Bought a new computer with Vista and when I got at the second level I get FPS drops and my game crashes saying somethign about "DEP" blocking it.. I've googled around but couldn't find any usefull answer. I don';t know if it's the same problem you guys have or something else but I don';t know how to fix it
And I couldn't put this game in DEP exceptions..

edit: O yeah, also have no idea what this physx is you guys are talking about so haven't tried your way yet xD

[GODzillaGSPB]

Originally Posted by Fenjin

Hey
I've been having problems with this game as well.. Bought a new computer with Vista and when I got at the second level I get FPS drops and my game crashes saying somethign about "DEP" blocking it.. I've googled around but couldn't find any usefull answer. I don';t know if it's the same problem you guys have or something else but I don';t know how to fix it
And I couldn't put this game in DEP exceptions..

edit: O yeah, also have no idea what this physx is you guys are talking about so haven't tried your way yet xD

PhysX is a piece of software code that explicitely accelerates physic effects of a game by calculation them on the graphic card rather then the cpu. Currently only Nvidia graphic cards support this PhysX SDK.

And yes, if your problem cannot be fixed by disabling PhysX in the ingame options or if it hasn't anything to do with PhysX at all this is probably the wrong topic for you. If this is the case I'd suggest you open a new topic on this.