Good game but great disappointment

Knorror · 18-01-2009, 08:55 AM

Parkour is about running free without limits, so what happen Dice? I was waiting for a open world game, with primary and secundary missions, jumping from building to building, roof to roof, windows to windows, hall to hall, going where i want to go. In the game there is only one way, it is extremely lineal. Where is the freedom?

Why dont make the all city a playground to run?
Taking objets from one building to another to complete the missions.
Why dont real time so we can hide in the shadows when a mission is to hard, or take the opportunity of low security?

Just ideas.

ZeroMaverick · 18-01-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knorror

Parkeu is about running free without limits, so what happen Dice? I was waiting for a open world game, with primary and secundary missions, jumping from building to building, roof to roof, windows to windows, hall to hall, going where i want to go. In the game there is only one way, it is extremely lineal. Where is the freedom?

Why dont make the all city a playground to run?
Taking objets from one building to another to complete the missions.
Why dont real time so we can hide in the shadows when a mission is to hard, or take the opportunity of low security?

Just ideas.

i second this notion

erlik9 · 18-01-2009, 09:35 AM

I was expecting more freedom to solve problems and move around. Most of the problem-solving is simply trying to figure out the intentions of the level designer and testing the limits of different moves ("She can wall-run that far? Really?").

Even in the time trials, the "different paths" are mostly just different tactics.

Chopsan · 18-01-2009, 11:06 AM

There is more then one way. It's not extremly linear. It is pretty linear tho.

Knorror · 18-01-2009, 06:43 PM

but theres is only one door always, or one path, or one ventilation system to continue. I see it like extremely lineal.

Chopsan · 18-01-2009, 11:48 PM

You haven't played enough FPS games then.

Knorror · 19-01-2009, 03:15 AM

I have played enough, and it's all the same. Mirror's edge is different but not that different.

racerx85x · 21-01-2009, 07:13 AM

I'll second Knorror's complaint. The game makes you guess what the level designer wants you to do, just like the earliest 3D games. Sometimes there are a few ways to get there but you're not making decisions outside of this. The essence of parkour being freedom in hard urban landscapes should have been the basic principle for the game. Instead it was choreographed repetition.

DICE should make Mirror's Edge 2 a blend of Skate and Prince of Persia. Or just stick to the Battlefield and leave storytelling to the companies that are better at it.

Armitag3 · 21-01-2009, 08:51 AM

Sorry to say but all of you have it wrong. Long before the game came out it was well known knowledge that the game was going to be linear. All the interviews with the dev team pointed out the the game is story based and if you want to do free roaming you can and then to one you will find a bag or a short cut.

I think the game came out too soon. The dynamics behind the game is too complex for your average gamer and the fact that you can disarm someone but its in your best interest to toss the gun instead of use it, confused a lot of people. Yes its a FP but its not a FPS!! Its a FPRTS. Thus with all the confusion a lot of people cut the game down before it even had a chance to hit its peak. Sorry but this game is everything and more than what I expected.

The game play is addictive. I am working on my 5th time to finish the game and I still keep on finding new ways to finish a stage. Yes there might only be one way to end the level but the paths you can take to get to there are almost infinite. Just by combining different moves you might be taking the same path but sure as hell you will get up there quicker.

erlik9 -

Quote:

"different paths" are mostly just different tactics.

How does different tactics not make a difference to the game play?

And all in all Parkour is all about finding different ways to do the same thing.

litalia · 21-01-2009, 01:39 PM

I only thought that the characters movement is loosly based on Parkour i never saw the game itself called parkour oh insinuating in any way that it is free roaming. the story of the game and the very job of the runners is to take a package/message from one place to another.

Just because the characters movements are like something doesnt make it that.

looking at the site and the box i see no mention of Parkour.

A game or its developers cannot be held responsible for your "assumption" especially assumiing"its a Parkour game so must be free roam" there is nothing new with the movements of this character and you could easily say that her movements are based on Prince of Persia. every move she does is in that old chestnut. now if the game was called "freerunner" or worse "Parkour or die" (remembering the ol skate or die) then your conclusion of a free roaming/running game would be well founded.

Her movements have just been associated with Parkour, maybe because Parkour is reletivly a new sport (founded in france i believe) or they may have been inspired by it, but as said before there is nothing new with her movements just more pace focased as apposed to the puzzle focused prince of persia.

if you want a free roaming game your probably best off with some rpg's Bethesder softworks may be right up your ally, i know i love em.

im happy with the game, it runs alright and i enjoy playing it, so its linear, so is the human perception of the passage of time. you cant do anything about it, so just Chin up and lets have a ball.

you want a run around and jump off walls and such like completely free, the engines are out there, go make it. ^^

sorry for sounding a lil cynical but if people know what the perfect game should be, i wish they would just go and make it.

racerx85x · 22-01-2009, 05:51 PM

I don't make games for a living so I want to give some clarity to the devs I admire as to why I don't like their games as much as I should.

I was disappointed with Mirror's Edge not only because of the lack of free-running (and yes Parkour was mentioned abundantly in the hype before the games release), but also because of the simplistic and dull storyline and characters (except Faith) and the cheap Flash cutscenes. It all added up to a big let-down for me and I won't be buying DICE games any time soon, except BF Heroes of course.

litalia · 22-01-2009, 06:23 PM

It may have been mentioned in the hype. but it isnt mentioned on the sites or games description. the HYPE and the official game linked description are two seperate things.

just my opinion there

Knorror · 22-01-2009, 08:12 PM

Im agree with racerx85x in the dull storyline. The "mistery character" with the hockey mask... come on!! you have three characters in the game, one is you, another is a guy who is talking to you all the time, and celeste... is a poor poor story.

For those who don't get it, Mirror edge is Tomb Rairder in first person and urban.

Don`t misinterpret me, i like Mirror's Edge, is a very good game, but could be muuuuch better. Maybe DICE had to stop to think a little longer before to do it.

al_capowned · 22-01-2009, 09:19 PM

Being that this is a *somewhat* original idea for a video game the developers were almost forced to make the game linear. Had the game been completely free the average gamer would have gotten lost (forgone liestening to the story line) and essentially given up out of frustration. I can safely assume that if the world was completely open (which isn't possible in the first place) many of you would be here on the same forum complaining that the game wasn't linear enough.

I have great confidence that the second installment will be far more open (while still being somewhat linear). You can't give up on a great idea or a great game after it's first installment because you felt as though all gamers (including casual ones) would have wanted a more open world to explore.

natanz · 23-01-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al_capowned

I have great confidence that the second installment will be far more open (while still being somewhat linear).

That I want!

and momentum should play a bigger role! ok, in time trails 1 second makes a difference, but when you play the story and you lose all momentum, you'll still be able to make the next jump or stay out of the hands of your pursuers.

al_capowned · 23-01-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natanz

That I want!

and momentum should play a bigger role! ok, in time trails 1 second makes a difference, but when you play the story and you lose all momentum, you'll still be able to make the next jump or stay out of the hands of your pursuers.

the actual story mode is much more an introduction to how to play the game than it is the actual game itself. I know this isn't what a lot of people expected or wanted but the game doesn't really start until after you've completed the story mode.

Knorror · 23-01-2009, 10:22 PM

Is the same with assassins creed, the story is a introduction but all the game is excelent, with the exception it become repetitive at the half of the game. Besides, mirror edge is to short, i finished every chapter in half an hour.

M13-5 · 24-01-2009, 04:03 AM

This game is a Point A to Point B game. Super Mario World style of linear.

In SMW, you can usually take the upper route usually through clouds or something, or take the bottom route, where you will find pipes to go under ground.

In ME, you can go around the left side of the building, or go around the right side, or go through the middle and skip a certain puzzle if you're good enough.

What would be better: Is if it put you on a building, and made other buildings near by manageable, but still box you in. "Woah you can go waaay up hear and rope down?" or... "Woah you can go down this pipe and scale the edge of the building"

Not...

"Woah... you can wall run across the gap"
"Or woah, you can swing across it"

But when/if we get to map for Mirror's Edge I'm going to map something like my example... Have like a grid of buildings that could be a villa or something, and you can go on every one of them, but all of them lead to the crane eventually. Not have 3 in a line.

natanz · 24-01-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M13-5

But when/if we get to map for Mirror's Edge I'm going to map something like my example... Have like a grid of buildings that could be a villa or something, and you can go on every one of them, but all of them lead to the crane eventually. Not have 3 in a line.

Yeah, i think that's how most people would want this game to work.

Mirror's Edge is similar to games that create new genres: those games are very basic and are just the start of what you can create with such a game (in this case a first person game without weapons and you have to run/jump etc).

But that was not necessary in this case! We already know 1st person games and games where you have to wall run, jump, etc. So they could have added more complex moves, combos, and definitely (longer) alternative routes.

rickyhabana · 24-01-2009, 09:27 PM

to be honest, mirror's edge 2 will be a completely different game. too many people complained about too many aspects, and most of the characters died ie ropeburn, jacknife, pope, merc, miller?....

Knorror · 24-01-2009, 09:57 PM

Better be.

What we are saying, are too obviously ideas. I cant beleave that didn't comes into DICE head when they were thinking the game.

"-hmmm... guy, maybe we need to chage the game, I think it is too lineal"
"-forget it, nobody will notice it..."
"-Yes! and we can delay the pc version to make more money! huraaaaa"

Seriously, if they wake up, Mirror's Edge 2 will be a fantastic game.

Mirror edge is the example when the publicity built a image of a game biggest than the game it self. And when it is release they (and we) find out it's realy small. (again, Mirror Edge is a good... buuuut a great disappointment)

Vorcan · 25-01-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by litalia

I only thought that the characters movement is loosly based on Parkour i never saw the game itself called parkour oh insinuating in any way that it is free roaming. the story of the game and the very job of the runners is to take a package/message from one place to another.

Just because the characters movements are like something doesnt make it that.

looking at the site and the box i see no mention of Parkour.

A game or its developers cannot be held responsible for your "assumption" especially assumiing"its a Parkour game so must be free roam" there is nothing new with the movements of this character and you could easily say that her movements are based on Prince of Persia. every move she does is in that old chestnut. now if the game was called "freerunner" or worse "Parkour or die" (remembering the ol skate or die) then your conclusion of a free roaming/running game would be well founded.

Her movements have just been associated with Parkour, maybe because Parkour is reletivly a new sport (founded in france i believe) or they may have been inspired by it, but as said before there is nothing new with her movements just more pace focased as apposed to the puzzle focused prince of persia.

if you want a free roaming game your probably best off with some rpg's Bethesder softworks may be right up your ally, i know i love em.

im happy with the game, it runs alright and i enjoy playing it, so its linear, so is the human perception of the passage of time. you cant do anything about it, so just Chin up and lets have a ball.

you want a run around and jump off walls and such like completely free, the engines are out there, go make it. ^^

sorry for sounding a lil cynical but if people know what the perfect game should be, i wish they would just go and make it.

I completely agree with the above. BUT,

I do also partially agree with other people's statement, that the game would improve so much more, with a larger playing area. There is this one part in the game, where I thought I was gonna beat the system and see how far I'd go. and ended at an invisible wall, not even 15 in game feet away from the actual playing area, which kinda got me down since there WAS a police officer there shooting at me behind this elusive wall haha.

I hope they bring out an expansion of the game, with maybe an interactive online function where you can run together with 1-2 friends across an entire city freely.

~Vorcan~

natanz · 25-01-2009, 03:58 PM

I think most people are on the same line when it comes to how Mirror's Edge should have been gameplay-wise.

The story however should also not be cliche.

M13-5 · 26-01-2009, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorcan

I hope they bring out an expansion of the game, with maybe an interactive online function where you can run together with 1-2 friends across an entire city freely.

This^

Knorror · 26-01-2009, 05:57 PM

yes, a expansion is the best idea. I don't want to wait 3 year to Mirror Edge 2. One year and DICE can pull together a great expansion. IF they follow our suggestions, of course.

18-01-2009, 08:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	Good game but great disappointment Parkour is about running free without limits, so what happen Dice? I was waiting for a open world game, with primary and secundary missions, jumping from building to building, roof to roof, windows to windows, hall to hall, going where i want to go. In the game there is only one way, it is extremely lineal. Where is the freedom? Why dont make the all city a playground to run? Taking objets from one building to another to complete the missions. Why dont real time so we can hide in the shadows when a mission is to hard, or take the opportunity of low security? Just ideas. Last edited by Knorror; 18-01-2009 at 10:59 PM..

18-01-2009, 09:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
erlik9 Rookie Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4	Thirded I was expecting more freedom to solve problems and move around. Most of the problem-solving is simply trying to figure out the intentions of the level designer and testing the limits of different moves ("She can wall-run that far? Really?"). Even in the time trials, the "different paths" are mostly just different tactics.

21-01-2009, 01:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
litalia Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 58	I only thought that the characters movement is loosly based on Parkour i never saw the game itself called parkour oh insinuating in any way that it is free roaming. the story of the game and the very job of the runners is to take a package/message from one place to another. Just because the characters movements are like something doesnt make it that. looking at the site and the box i see no mention of Parkour. A game or its developers cannot be held responsible for your "assumption" especially assumiing"its a Parkour game so must be free roam" there is nothing new with the movements of this character and you could easily say that her movements are based on Prince of Persia. every move she does is in that old chestnut. now if the game was called "freerunner" or worse "Parkour or die" (remembering the ol skate or die) then your conclusion of a free roaming/running game would be well founded. Her movements have just been associated with Parkour, maybe because Parkour is reletivly a new sport (founded in france i believe) or they may have been inspired by it, but as said before there is nothing new with her movements just more pace focased as apposed to the puzzle focused prince of persia. if you want a free roaming game your probably best off with some rpg's Bethesder softworks may be right up your ally, i know i love em. im happy with the game, it runs alright and i enjoy playing it, so its linear, so is the human perception of the passage of time. you cant do anything about it, so just Chin up and lets have a ball. you want a run around and jump off walls and such like completely free, the engines are out there, go make it. ^^ sorry for sounding a lil cynical but if people know what the perfect game should be, i wish they would just go and make it. Last edited by litalia; 21-01-2009 at 01:41 PM..

24-01-2009, 04:03 AM	#18 (permalink)
M13-5 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 19	This game is a Point A to Point B game. Super Mario World style of linear. In SMW, you can usually take the upper route usually through clouds or something, or take the bottom route, where you will find pipes to go under ground. In ME, you can go around the left side of the building, or go around the right side, or go through the middle and skip a certain puzzle if you're good enough. What would be better: Is if it put you on a building, and made other buildings near by manageable, but still box you in. "Woah you can go waaay up hear and rope down?" or... "Woah you can go down this pipe and scale the edge of the building" Not... "Woah... you can wall run across the gap" "Or woah, you can swing across it" But when/if we get to map for Mirror's Edge I'm going to map something like my example... Have like a grid of buildings that could be a villa or something, and you can go on every one of them, but all of them lead to the crane eventually. Not have 3 in a line. __________________ Hai.

24-01-2009, 09:27 PM	#20 (permalink)
rickyhabana Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Port Talbot,Wales Gender: Male Posts: 506	to be honest, mirror's edge 2 will be a completely different game. too many people complained about too many aspects, and most of the characters died ie ropeburn, jacknife, pope, merc, miller?.... __________________ Xbox Live & PSN: rickyhabana "Let the pictures tell you everything. This, this is special."

18-01-2009, 11:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
Chopsan Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4	There is more then one way. It's not extremly linear. It is pretty linear tho.

18-01-2009, 06:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	but theres is only one door always, or one path, or one ventilation system to continue. I see it like extremely lineal.

18-01-2009, 11:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Chopsan Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4	You haven't played enough FPS games then.

19-01-2009, 03:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	I have played enough, and it's all the same. Mirror's edge is different but not that different.

21-01-2009, 07:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
racerx85x Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	I'll second Knorror's complaint. The game makes you guess what the level designer wants you to do, just like the earliest 3D games. Sometimes there are a few ways to get there but you're not making decisions outside of this. The essence of parkour being freedom in hard urban landscapes should have been the basic principle for the game. Instead it was choreographed repetition. DICE should make Mirror's Edge 2 a blend of Skate and Prince of Persia. Or just stick to the Battlefield and leave storytelling to the companies that are better at it.

22-01-2009, 05:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
racerx85x Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	I don't make games for a living so I want to give some clarity to the devs I admire as to why I don't like their games as much as I should. I was disappointed with Mirror's Edge not only because of the lack of free-running (and yes Parkour was mentioned abundantly in the hype before the games release), but also because of the simplistic and dull storyline and characters (except Faith) and the cheap Flash cutscenes. It all added up to a big let-down for me and I won't be buying DICE games any time soon, except BF Heroes of course.

22-01-2009, 06:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
litalia Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 58	It may have been mentioned in the hype. but it isnt mentioned on the sites or games description. the HYPE and the official game linked description are two seperate things. just my opinion there

22-01-2009, 08:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	Im agree with racerx85x in the dull storyline. The "mistery character" with the hockey mask... come on!! you have three characters in the game, one is you, another is a guy who is talking to you all the time, and celeste... is a poor poor story. For those who don't get it, Mirror edge is Tomb Rairder in first person and urban. Don`t misinterpret me, i like Mirror's Edge, is a very good game, but could be muuuuch better. Maybe DICE had to stop to think a little longer before to do it.

22-01-2009, 09:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
al_capowned Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17	Being that this is a somewhat original idea for a video game the developers were almost forced to make the game linear. Had the game been completely free the average gamer would have gotten lost (forgone liestening to the story line) and essentially given up out of frustration. I can safely assume that if the world was completely open (which isn't possible in the first place) many of you would be here on the same forum complaining that the game wasn't linear enough. I have great confidence that the second installment will be far more open (while still being somewhat linear). You can't give up on a great idea or a great game after it's first installment because you felt as though all gamers (including casual ones) would have wanted a more open world to explore.

23-01-2009, 10:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	Is the same with assassins creed, the story is a introduction but all the game is excelent, with the exception it become repetitive at the half of the game. Besides, mirror edge is to short, i finished every chapter in half an hour.

24-01-2009, 09:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	Better be. What we are saying, are too obviously ideas. I cant beleave that didn't comes into DICE head when they were thinking the game. "-hmmm... guy, maybe we need to chage the game, I think it is too lineal" "-forget it, nobody will notice it..." "-Yes! and we can delay the pc version to make more money! huraaaaa" Seriously, if they wake up, Mirror's Edge 2 will be a fantastic game. Mirror edge is the example when the publicity built a image of a game biggest than the game it self. And when it is release they (and we) find out it's realy small. (again, Mirror Edge is a good... buuuut a great disappointment) Last edited by Knorror; 24-01-2009 at 10:08 PM..

25-01-2009, 03:58 PM	#23 (permalink)
natanz Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 12	I think most people are on the same line when it comes to how Mirror's Edge should have been gameplay-wise. The story however should also not be cliche.

26-01-2009, 05:57 PM	#25 (permalink)
Knorror Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 26	yes, a expansion is the best idea. I don't want to wait 3 year to Mirror Edge 2. One year and DICE can pull together a great expansion. IF they follow our suggestions, of course.