The Big Fifa10 Custom Tactics Project

[dave797]

Had a minor brainwave in another thread about this years custom tactics, whilst removed this year for online there is still quite abit of work to be done to get teams playing like they do in real life offline.

So well we're the community so why dont we do it? We claim to know the most about our beloved local or favourite teams so lets put some hard evidence together, to improve everyones offline gaming this year and maybe the whole game for next year.

What You need to do
1) Decide on a team to customize
2) Post in the thead, the team you'll be taking on and how you think they should play.
3) Get to work experimenting with different custom tactics.
4) TEST them alot, you'll need to test playing as your team and against them to see how realistic the tactics are.
5) Finally post the custom tactics values in the thread for the whole forum to use!

Then hopefully we can come up with a forum modified custom tactics engine thats true to life and gives us all a better playing experience for MM and offline game modes.

We all want the AI to be realistic so lets see if we can do it!!

I hope this thread will essentially run itself and everyone can chip in with ratings and opinions on eachothers work. But keep it friendly guys if you dont agree with some tactics then just give your reasons.

So start off we need volunteers to take some teams on........

Custom Tactics:
Build up Play
Speed: 0-100
Passing: 0-100
Positioning: Organized/Free Form

Chance Creation
Passing: 0-100
Crossing: 0-100
Shooting: 0-100
Positioning: Organized/Free Form

Defence
Pressure: 0-100
Aggression: 0-100
Team Width: 0-100
Defender Line: Cover/Offisde Trap

Dave797 - Man Utd
JEinchy - Arsenal - Page 4
Fodder007 - General Tactics
toopgui88 - Aston Villa
Lenaum - Barcelona
LifeOnMars79 - Chelsea

[JEinchy]

I'll try give it a go, but the only team I can really do is Arsenal. I have a rough idea of what I could try to do with them, replicating their current tactics and style.

1. Short, snappy passing.
2. Forward players roam into space and create space.
3. Everyone on high pressure settings, always closing players down.
4. A defensive styled DM (Song) which allows an attack minded CB (Vermaelen) to go forward and score, hopefully, a Vermaelen-esque corker.
5. Main CM going forward, effectivly acting as a second striker.
6. Wingers cut inside, rarely cross.
7. Full back bomb on forward, DM drops back as cover.

[dave797]

Originally Posted by JEinchy

I'll try give it a go, but the only team I can really do is Arsenal. I have a rough idea of what I could try to do with them, replicating their current tactics and style.

1. Short, snappy passing.
2. Forward players roam into space and create space.
3. Everyone on high pressure settings, always closing players down.
4. A defensive styled DM (Song) which allows an attack minded CB (Vermaelen) to go forward and score, hopefully, a Vermaelen-esque corker.
5. Main CM going forward, effectivly acting as a second striker.
6. Wingers cut inside, rarely cross.
7. Full back bomb on forward, DM drops back as cover.

Gold star for being the first to post!

[JEinchy]

Haha, cheers mate. I'll get me lalalala out of bed and get cracking right away. I'll do a few tests by leaving the match CPU vs CPU with around 5 mins a half.

[Fodder007]

I had thought about doing a tactics experiment myself and it might tie in with this. I was going to play lots of matches and make minor tweaks to one thing such as width or pressure so that you get the true effect of that attribute and are able to develop a guide that gets people playing exactly how they want to.

[dave797]

Originally Posted by Fodder007

I had thought about doing a tactics experiment myself and it might tie in with this. I was going to play lots of matches and make minor tweaks to one thing such as width or pressure so that you get the true effect of that attribute and are able to develop a guide that gets people playing exactly how they want to.

I'm assuming you'll take Man City But any feedback generally will be good for the forum so people know what does and doesn't work!

[Fodder007]

Originally Posted by dave797

I'm assuming you'll take Man City But any feedback generally will be good for the forum so people know what does and doesn't work!

Ow that hurts, stop twisting my arm up my back

I would take Man City but I want to know if I can somehow build this in to my other game modes so that I can do the experiment whilst doing Manager Mode or Be-A-Pro or something.

[dave797]

Originally Posted by Fodder007

Ow that hurts, stop twisting my arm up my back

I would take Man City but I want to know if I can somehow build this in to my other game modes so that I can do the experiment whilst doing Manager Mode or Be-A-Pro or something.

Well that was my general idea, so you apply custom tactics to all Premiership teams say and then start a MM and they'll all play like that. I assume it holds those settings but im not 100% sure!

I just thought if every one takes a team we dont all have to do the donkey work.

[JEinchy]

Okay, so here's the initial settings I have for Arsenal thus far:

Formation, Positioning and Work Rate (attacking/defending):
4-3-3

GK: Almunia
LB: Clichy (Work Rate: Medium/Medium. Position: Forward arrow/no arrow)
CB: Vermaelen (Work Rate: Medium/High. Position: no arrow/no arrow)
CB: Gallas (Work Rate: Low/High. Position: no arrow/no arrow)
RB: Sagna (Work Rate: Medium/Medium. Position: Forward arrow/no arrow)
DM: Song (Work Rate: Low/High. Position: Forward arrow/backwards arrow)
CM: Denilson (Work Rate: Medium/Medium. Position: Foward arrow/backward diagonal arrow)
CM: Fabregas (Work Rate: High/Medium. Position: Foward up-diagonal/no arrow)
LW: Arshavin (Work Rate: High/Medium. Position: Foward down diagonal/no arrow)
RW: Nasri (Work Rate: High/Medium. Position: Foward up diagonal/no arrow)
ST: van Persie (Work Rate: High/Low. Position: no arrow/backwards arrow).

Tactics:
Build Up Play
Speed - 75
Passing - 25
Positioning - Free Form

Chance Creation
Passing - 70
Crossing - 25
Shooting - 50
Positioning - Free Form

Defence
Pressure - 75
Aggression - 45
Team Width - 70
Defender Line - Offside Trap

So let's see how this goes in a five minute a half match agaisnt Spurs.

[JEinchy]

I've made some immediate observations with the AI with my tactics:

• For a reason I've yet to discover, attacking players seem to linger on the ball for too long. They will recieve the ball and run with it, often ignoring the easy pass. Because of this, players get caught in possesion a lot and the possesion changes hands.
• Possibly due to the opposing teams tactics, but possesion is often 50-50. The opposing team, Tottenham in this case, seem to be able to keep possesion and press the other team regardless of who it is. The oppasition will not change their tactics, regardless of who they are facing. This leads me to believe that teams that are significantly worse will get heavily beaten by the best.
• Chances are few and faw between, and everyone seems unwilling to shoot.

So right now, my system is far from fluid with problems with retaining possesion and creating chances. Defensively, it appears to be pretty good with lots of pressing and a lot of tackles being won cleanly.

[Fodder007]

Mr Dave Sir. What if I was to experiment with the tactics in my current manager mode career and report the findings on here. I can give you my base settings, then carefully watch how my players are playing and report back. Then say well actually I'd like these players to play further upfield, create more space, press more etc etc, I can adjust my settings and re-report what I find.

Any use to your project? Cool title by the way!

[dave797]

Originally Posted by JEinchy

I've made some immediate observations with the AI with my tactics:

• For a reason I've yet to discover, attacking players seem to linger on the ball for too long. They will recieve the ball and run with it, often ignoring the easy pass. Because of this, players get caught in possesion a lot and the possesion changes hands.
• Possibly due to the opposing teams tactics, but possesion is often 50-50. The opposing team, Tottenham in this case, seem to be able to keep possesion and press the other team regardless of who it is. The oppasition will not change their tactics, regardless of who they are facing. This leads me to believe that teams that are significantly worse will get heavily beaten by the best.
• Chances are few and faw between, and everyone seems unwilling to shoot.

So right now, my system is far from fluid with problems with retaining possesion and creating chances. Defensively, it appears to be pretty good with lots of pressing and a lot of tackles being won cleanly.

Nice mate sounds good!

Originally Posted by Fodder007

Mr Dave Sir. What if I was to experiment with the tactics in my current manager mode career and report the findings on here. I can give you my base settings, then carefully watch how my players are playing and report back. Then say well actually I'd like these players to play further upfield, create more space, press more etc etc, I can adjust my settings and re-report what I find.

Any use to your project? Cool title by the way!

Mate any custom tactics advice would be wicked, i'll be playing around with United tonight so I'll post some bits tomorrow. But if you can provide any tips mate then go for it!

[DErby1073]

i played around with tactics last night i use bluechampbloger stats for 09 for creating differant tactics for teams such as top teams/ euro teams/ mid table teams/ and relegation candidates.. mainly becaude we only have 20 or so slots to save custom tactics in .. i also improved the shooting value up high and i made for a better game that icould see. mainly cpu taking long shots when opertunity was available.. i also lowered the pressure so cpu was not always on me as soon as i got the ball

[Fodder007]

Originally Posted by dave797

Mate any custom tactics advice would be wicked, i'll be playing around with United tonight so I'll post some bits tomorrow. But if you can provide any tips mate then go for it!

Don't forget to make time for our match/es

I've noticed a few things that need changing in my tactics such as trying to play with a CDM but hes never there or someone else is where he should be. Players not covering runs down the lines. Not making enough space for passes etc. If I get to the bottom of why that is then I'm sure it'll help with what your trying to do here.

[JEinchy]

I think incresing team pressure makes player track back more. My wingers track the full backs going forward and my pressure setting is on 75. Also giving players a medium defensive work load helps.

Is your positioning on free roam? My players are making space, but the problem I have is players finding those players.

My CDM is also doing okay, going forward with the team and becoming a 5th defender when the team defends. I often find that a lot of CPU play goes down the wings, so it becomes difficult for the CDM to break up play.

EDIT: I changed a few things around. In the build up, I increased passing to 30 and dropped speed to 70, resulting in more careful passing and more possesion. The 55% possesion in the most recent match shows this, as in previous games with shorter passing-quick temp possesion was 50% and 49%. In chance creation, I dropped passing down to 65 and increased shooting to 75. The result: Fabrgeas scoring a 30 yarder.

Arsenal made 7 shots, 4 on target. That's way too small, considering Arsenal often have a shots cout up in the 20's so I think I need to fiddle around with player positions: make the wingers more central.

[Strills]

Nice idea!
I could possibly do Sevilla a little bit later, I've been watching them a lot lately. :]

[Fodder007]

I think as a starting point for any of these you should play a match using the extreme setting first e.g. 100 width and 0 width, that way you will really get a feel for what it is that that attribute is changing for your team. Do this for each attribute and you will have a good idea of a starting point for your tactics. Then you can fine tune to find the optimum. Just my thoughts...

I'll definately be having more of a play with tactics tonight to see what I can find out.

[cc1981_]

but u can do custom tactics for online ......change in team management ..unranked online at least - havent tried ranked yet - waiting for servers to improve before i do that

[JEinchy]

That's a good way of doing it Fodder007. It's good for people that don't know what they want in their team and by going from extreme to extreme they'll be able to see what does what.

Here's a question: would difficulty effect how your team plays? I ask because during one-on-ones, the players seem to run into the keeper like they would on the easier modes. I'm thinking that putting the difficulty up what change that.

EDIT: I have the answer. I changed the difficulty from semi-pro to legendary, and there's a big difference. The players are doing what I want them to do and doing it extremely well. It seems that a better level of skill improves the effectivness of the tactic.

[JEinchy]

So after watching the game with legendary difficulty, I think I'v nailed down my Arsenal tatcic; well, at least the basics of it. There's still some tweaking to be done here and there to make it a really realistic representation of how Arsenal play in real life, but for now I'm satisfied that it does the following:

• Passing is quick, accurate and can open up defences.
• Players no longer dally on the ball and run into players. They can play every type of pass.
• Players press the ball without leaving too many gaps.
• Things happen when the creative players get on the ball; Fabregas, Nasri, Arshavin and van Persie all seem to do something special whether it be a pass, piece of skill or shot.
• Not too many fouls are being commited, which suggests that my pressure settings are just about right.
• Players are taking more shots and doing better with 1v1's.

But of course there are some things it's lacking:

• In five CPU vs CPU matches, there was a total of 6 goals (5 to Arsenal, 1 to Tottenham). Initially, this was down to it being on semi-pro and unintelligent AI, but now it's due to outstanding goal keeping that comes with Legendary difficulty.
• Lack of clear cut chances.
• Amount of players going forward seems a bit too small.

Right now, I'm going to take a break with AI testing and start using it myself in a couple of exhibition matches. This would be a good time to see how good I've set up my player positioning.

[dave797]

Originally Posted by JEinchy

So after watching the game with legendary difficulty, I think I'v nailed down my Arsenal tatcic; well, at least the basics of it. There's still some tweaking to be done here and there to make it a really realistic representation of how Arsenal play in real life, but for now I'm satisfied that it does the following:

• Passing is quick, accurate and can open up defences.
• Players no longer dally on the ball and run into players. They can play every type of pass.
• Players press the ball without leaving too many gaps.
• Things happen when the creative players get on the ball; Fabregas, Nasri, Arshavin and van Persie all seem to do something special whether it be a pass, piece of skill or shot.
• Not too many fouls are being commited, which suggests that my pressure settings are just about right.
• Players are taking more shots and doing better with 1v1's.

But of course there are some things it's lacking:

• In five CPU vs CPU matches, there was a total of 6 goals (5 to Arsenal, 1 to Tottenham). Initially, this was down to it being on semi-pro and unintelligent AI, but now it's due to outstanding goal keeping that comes with Legendary difficulty.
• Lack of clear cut chances.
• Amount of players going forward seems a bit too small.

Right now, I'm going to take a break with AI testing and start using it myself in a couple of exhibition matches. This would be a good time to see how good I've set up my player positioning.

That sounds really good mate, nice work!

I think knowing what the extremes of each slider does to effect the actually gameplay is pretty important and something you're obviously learning very quickly.

I think the real test will be with "you" playing as Arsenal though, then you can use your intelligence to put everything into practice!

[JEinchy]

Of course with me controlling the team the skill level I have it on will have an effect. Beating a poor team on semi-pro is obviously not the same as beating them on professional or world class. It also depends on my skill level as well. I'm not the best, but I'll do my best nonetheless.

[toopgui88]

Excellent thread idea, and I shall contribute when the game makes it to the states... I would love to get Aston Villa as accurate as possible. I did a lot of work to Fifa 09 in this respect as I don't play online.

An idea for the issue of the goal keepers being way too good on the Legendary difficulty, what we did in Fifa 09 was actually go in and edit the player's stats, (ex lower goalkeepers reaction time) and this created balance for how the AI played compared to the difficulty choosen.

[dave797]

Originally Posted by toopgui88

Excellent thread idea, and I shall contribute when the game makes it to the states... I would love to get Aston Villa as accurate as possible. I did a lot of work to Fifa 09 in this respect as I don't play online.

An idea for the issue of the goal keepers being way too good on the Legendary difficulty, what we did in Fifa 09 was actually go in and edit the player's stats, (ex lower goalkeepers reaction time) and this created balance for how the AI played compared to the difficulty choosen.

Glad to hear it mate i'll add you to the list on the OP, cheers

[dubkop]

wow a thread on here that doesnt make me want the world to end good work lads