Why the assists MUST go - Why they mar a great game

[Xaor]

This is meant as the first part of a trilogy of threads on the biggest issues on FIFA 10:

Part 2: The problem of the pressure buttons


FIFA 10 has cancer. When this game was being built, when we were all doing our best to explain to EA what needed to be done, a number of people said VERY explicitly that the assists needed to be weakened, nerfed, tweaked, removed, or whatever. The reason we said this is because we KNEW the effect they were having on the game.

The assists in FIFA 10 are breaking this game. I mean this very seriously. They are breaking this game. The online of this game is corrupted because of the assists. They are the most vastly exploitable system I have ever seen.

Some will say that the reason the assists exist is to allow people to get into the game. To allow a 7 year old to have fun. To allow a 49 year old to have fun. To allow a casual gamer to have fun. This is likely true. The problem is not that. The problem is that, like a lot of systems like this, the people who REALLY benefit from its existence are the hardcore gamers who want to win at pretty much all costs - which is why, once again, if you get to a high enough skill level, and are getting matched against skilled enough players, you'll get shown a game which isn't football.

The assists break this game. They are far, far too accurate. The shooting isn't bad - that's been changed considerably this year... but the passing (be it through balls, chipped balls, or direct passes) is absolutely outrageous - and this alone is the problem.

With any REMOTELY decent team, assisted passing seems to LITERALLY allow you to make ANY pass perfectly. It doesn't matter how far away the player is - you can make that pass. You CAN'T miss on assisted - unless you pass directly at another player.

So it's fairly obvious HOW this will be exploited and it's exactly how it IS exploited - players pass with extreme velocity and frequency, knowing that they won't miss. Passing in a way that would make Arsenal or Barcelona in their hay-day's feel very, very jealous. A lot of people call this ping-pong passing. I can see why. Once this happens, all football goes out of the window - because not only is it extremely unrealistic, and unbalanced, it also wrecks the AI.

The assists have to change if this game is going to improve - and they have to change a lot. To put it simplistically - the assists need to be the EASIEST setting, but the LEAST effective. Players on assisted online need to realise VERY quickly that - wait a second - I need to play on semi if I am to have a chance against these people.

For comparison, this is how Forza 3 works. In Forza 3 there are a large number of assists. The difference between a player using all the assists and none of them is considerable.

A player on assisted:
Doesn't have to bother with braking
Doesn't have to worry about the brakes locking up
Doesn't have to worry about spinning the wheels when accelerating
Barely has to worry about spinning
Doesn't have to worry about shifting the gears
Doesn't have to worry about the clutch
Can see a pretty good racing line which guides them

Without these settings:
They have to brake, accelerate, and turn
The brakes can lock up
The car can lose grip when accelerating too fast
The car can spin out
They control the gears
and the clutch
and they have no racing line

In FIFA, the assistance helps you. In Forza, it helps players who are bad, but hinders players who are good. That's why, on the leaderboards on the demo the top 100 is FILLED almost entirely by people who don't use assists - the top 10 by people who don't use any assist at all.

This is what FIFA needs. FIFA needs to have a BALANCE like this - along with improving the realism by breaking this assisted crutch which so many people have come to rely on. The ultimate proof that assisted is king came from a respondent to this thread:

Assists is what makes the game good, you have your filter so shh.

Which sounds like a typical quote from a typical assist user. The fantastic thing was his signature:

FIWC 08 Online #4
FIWC 08 Grand Final #6

FIWC 09 Online #3
FIWC 09 Grand Final #8

The worst thing perhaps is that, if you like manual or semi more, and by word you probably should if you care about football, you are screwed in large chunks of this game. You have to use the filters, and they are only filters for head-to-head play. It's time to sort this out.

The assist system is broken. It's broken because it's unrealistic. It's broken because it's not balanced. It's broken because it's unfair. - and it needs to change. It needs to change this year. The time to start discussing this is NOW.

[topblood]

nothing wrong with assist.

shooting game has assist too. you dont see people complaining.

no one is forcing you to play manual and if you are struggling against assist players then play people who are using manual

[OcHoMaN]

If your a good player and u use manual properly u can be far better than people using assisted.
Stop moaning. Having it on assisted doesnt take skill out the game. Its your choice

[Nalareg]

Stupid cheats. How dare they use the default settings!

[X360ADDICT]

Originally Posted by Xaor

I'm going to start with a line of huge controversy - because I'm cool.

If you play with assists online - you hurt this game. If you play with assists online - you make this game unenjoyable for me. If you play with assists online - you cheat this game.

This game is ruined by ONE thing, and ONE thing alone - assists. All of them. When someone is using assists:

1) The Realism
2) The Fairness
3) The Logic
4) The AI

It all goes to lalalala.

So, I will say this once, and for all. If you are finding online a bore - try playing manual. It's great. The problem is, I still am having my game affected by EA's cowardice. EA should have removed ALL of the full assists. Call the semi-assisted the assisted, and remove EVERY assisted control.

I am so thankful that the filters are there, because honestly, I would not play this game otherwise. I seriously wouldn't. I couldn't.

They break the game. I play Clubs, and I like clubs, in theory - but it's killed by people who use assists. It's killed by the fact that for some reason, God knows why, that assists pull off such ridiculously optimised passes that it totally kills all defensive AI. Once again we see attackers somehow getting the better of defenders when they really, really shouldn't.

This entire game is about catering to people who want to put nothing in and take everything out - and it needs to stop. If you want to have a separate leaderboard for AMATEUR players, then fine - that's absolutely reasonable. But that is what you are. If you use assists, and you have time to be on this forum - you are an amateur player, and you ARE ruining everyone else's game.

Next year, the assist system needs to rebuilt. People playing on full assists (or stabilisers) should be forced to play in a different league, and LABELLED as amateurs. The LOWEST assists must be at the very least as hard as semi is now. Secondly, it MUST follow that, in reasonable potential, the harder system MUST yield better results.

If anyone comes in here to defend assists, prepare to be lamented.

While you may have had a good point, I will never know. Considering I stopped reading after I realised, you love yourself way too much for me to take you seriously.

[Milky23P]

Originally Posted by OcHoMaN

Having it on assisted doesnt take skill out the game.

So when you pass, do you pay any attention to where you're aiming it?

[Xaor]

Originally Posted by OcHoMaN

If your a good player and u use manual properly u can be far better than people using assisted.
Stop moaning. Having it on assisted doesnt take skill out the game. Its your choice

Do you use manual, Ochoman? I'd love to see you try to beat a fully assisted player worth salt with full manual.

A freak, an absolute genius might be able to pull it off.. probably not. Let me guess, you use assisted.

Oh, and it DOES takes skill out of the game, anyone who denies this is delusional.

[johny_drama]

Originally Posted by Xaor

I'm going to start with a line of huge controversy - because I'm cool.

If you play with assists online - you hurt this game. If you play with assists online - you make this game unenjoyable for me. If you play with assists online - you cheat this game.

This game is ruined by ONE thing, and ONE thing alone - assists. All of them. When someone is using assists:

1) The Realism
2) The Fairness
3) The Logic
4) The AI

It all goes to lalalala.

So, I will say this once, and for all. If you are finding online a bore - try playing manual. It's great. The problem is, I still am having my game affected by EA's cowardice. EA should have removed ALL of the full assists. Call the semi-assisted the assisted, and remove EVERY assisted control.

I am so thankful that the filters are there, because honestly, I would not play this game otherwise. I seriously wouldn't. I couldn't.

They break the game. I play Clubs, and I like clubs, in theory - but it's killed by people who use assists. It's killed by the fact that for some reason, God knows why, that assists pull off such ridiculously optimised passes that it totally kills all defensive AI. Once again we see attackers somehow getting the better of defenders when they really, really shouldn't.

This entire game is about catering to people who want to put nothing in and take everything out - and it needs to stop. If you want to have a separate leaderboard for AMATEUR players, then fine - that's absolutely reasonable. But that is what you are. If you use assists, and you have time to be on this forum - you are an amateur player, and you ARE ruining everyone else's game.

Next year, the assist system needs to rebuilt. People playing on full assists (or stabilisers) should be forced to play in a different league, and LABELLED as amateurs. The LOWEST assists must be at the very least as hard as semi is now. Secondly, it MUST follow that, in reasonable potential, the harder system MUST yield better results.

If anyone comes in here to defend assists, prepare to be lamented.

if FIFA 10 becomes an official sport i agree, otherwise its a game people pay there money for it. they can play how they like. you have the option to filter to only play someone with manual controls. allowing different assist levels makes the game more accesable for different levels of players.

my flat mate has just orderd a ps3 and fifa10, he hasnt played computer games for 20 years. he would not be able to get the ball over the half way line with manual. after he pays £250 is he not intitled to play on assistyed controls??

[Milky23P]

Originally Posted by X360ADDICT

While you may have had a good point, I will never know. Considering I stopped reading after I realised, you love yourself way too much for me to take you seriously.

The main reason Manual v Assisted can't be discussed on here, most Assisted/Semi users get completely the wrong idea

[Xaor]

Originally Posted by johny_drama

if FIFA 10 becomes an official sport i agree, otherwise its a game people pay there money for it. they can play how they like. you have the option to filter to only play someone with manual controls. allowing different assist levels makes the game more accesable for different levels of players.

my flat mate has just orderd a ps3 and fifa10, he hasnt played computer games for 20 years. he would not be able to get the ball over the half way line with manual. after he pays £250 is he not intitled to play on assistyed controls??

Your flat mate can be called an amateur then, though realistically, I bet you he could play with semi.

This isn't an argument. If you are absolutely useless, then maybe assisted is for you - and I can, PERHAPS understand a SUPER easy setting for people like that - but they HAVE to be segregated, or the assist functions SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed so that it doesn't give advantages to people who are TOTALLY unlike your flat mate (vast majority of online players).

[Snowymydog]

If you cannot beat a man uses assist, then you're not good enough to use full manual.

[Xaor]

Originally Posted by Snowymydog

If you cannot beat a man uses assist, then you're not good enough to use full manual.

A man? I can beat 'A' man. Just not the elitist 12 year old assist abusers.

[johny_drama]

Originally Posted by Xaor

Your flat mate can be called an amateur then, though realistically, I bet you he could play with semi.

This isn't an argument. If you are absolutely useless, then maybe assisted is for you - and I can, PERHAPS understand a SUPER easy setting for people like that - but they HAVE to be segregated, or the assist functions SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed so that it doesn't give advantages to people who are TOTALLY unlike your flat mate (vast majority of online players).

i agree the game would be better if everyone was really good at manaul but for instance me and my mate played manual games and we hardly ever got in each others final third as we couldnt complete enough passes.

so its not enjoyable for us.

if you want to play online you have to accept the game is 50% yours 50% the person your matched too. if they want to use Real Madrid on assisted there choice. like i said why cant you just use the filter????

[Snowymydog]

Originally Posted by johny_drama

i agree the game would be better if everyone was really good at manaul but for instance me and my mate played manual games and we hardly ever got in each others final third as we couldnt complete enough passes.

so its not enjoyable for us.

if you want to play online you have to accept the game is 50% yours 50% the person your matched too. if they want to use Real Madrid on assisted there choice. like i said why cant you just use the filter????

he just wants the opponents sucks on manual, then he can win.

[Xaor]

I've already explained why. 1v1 is fine. Once you go into anything else there ARE no filters.

[Miguel]

So the casual players who just boot up after a hard week's work have to use full semi or manual because you say so?

[CitizenUK]

Originally Posted by Xaor

I'm going to start with a line of huge controversy - because I'm cool.

If you play with assists online - you hurt this game. If you play with assists online - you make this game unenjoyable for me. If you play with assists online - you cheat this game.

So by EA putting the control scheme in the game, they are encouraging you to cheat?

Assisted is in the game to be used, so why can't people, who don't have the time to learn manual/are uncomfortable using manual, use them?

[ibex74]

Originally Posted by Xaor

I'm going to start with a line of huge controversy - because I'm cool.

If you play with assists online - you hurt this game. If you play with assists online - you make this game unenjoyable for me. If you play with assists online - you cheat this game.

This game is ruined by ONE thing, and ONE thing alone - assists. All of them. When someone is using assists:

1) The Realism
2) The Fairness
3) The Logic
4) The AI

It all goes to lalalala.

So, I will say this once, and for all. If you are finding online a bore - try playing manual. It's great. The problem is, I still am having my game affected by EA's cowardice. EA should have removed ALL of the full assists. Call the semi-assisted the assisted, and remove EVERY assisted control.

I am so thankful that the filters are there, because honestly, I would not play this game otherwise. I seriously wouldn't. I couldn't.

They break the game. I play Clubs, and I like clubs, in theory - but it's killed by people who use assists. It's killed by the fact that for some reason, God knows why, that assists pull off such ridiculously optimised passes that it totally kills all defensive AI. Once again we see attackers somehow getting the better of defenders when they really, really shouldn't.

This entire game is about catering to people who want to put nothing in and take everything out - and it needs to stop. If you want to have a separate leaderboard for AMATEUR players, then fine - that's absolutely reasonable. But that is what you are. If you use assists, and you have time to be on this forum - you are an amateur player, and you ARE ruining everyone else's game.

Next year, the assist system needs to rebuilt. People playing on full assists (or stabilisers) should be forced to play in a different league, and LABELLED as amateurs. The LOWEST assists must be at the very least as hard as semi is now. Secondly, it MUST follow that, in reasonable potential, the harder system MUST yield better results.

If anyone comes in here to defend assists, prepare to be lamented.

you are in the minority
the majority of players enjoy using assisted
you think ea is going to take out assisted and ruin for the majority of their paying customers?

[DanielRowe]

Why Manual must go!!!! - It gives people too big an ego at playing a computer game.

[Miguel]

"I play full manual, so it's quite obvious that I'm a superior human being."

[mattdinho]

the only thing that bothers me about assisted users, is that they can do what others cant, they can do a pass that curls around the defender and into the path of their own player, yet a manual player can only do a through ball straight, it gives a advantage that a manual user can not repeat, its quite unfair and shouldnt be allowed.

[Xaor]

Originally Posted by Miguel

So the casual players who just boot up after a hard week's work have to use full semi or manual because you say so?

"If you want to have a separate leaderboard for AMATEUR players, then fine - that's absolutely reasonable. But that is what you are. If you use assists, and you have time to be on this forum - you are an amateur player, and you ARE ruining everyone else's game."

If they want to leave assisted for some people, fine. They can use it anywhere they like - except ranked, and if they want ranked, they can do it alone.

Originally Posted by CitizenUK

So by EA putting the control scheme in the game, they are encouraging you to cheat?

At the moment, yes. The assists break the game.

Assisted is in the game to be used, so why can't people, who don't have the time to learn manual/are uncomfortable using manual, use them?

I never said they couldn't, but to imply the majority of assist users are in that group, or rather, the majority of ranked playing assist ABusers are in that group is delusional.

Semi isn't that much harder than assisted - FIFA never used to be quite so automated. Why do we need this ridiculous assist setting which basically plays the game for you?

you are in the minority
the majority of players enjoy using assisted
you think ea is going to take out assisted and ruin for the majority of their paying customers?

Ruin? Ruin? You think the majority of their paying customers CAN'T play on semi? At some point you guys are going to have to accept that assisted is broken, it gives players an unfair advantage, and OF COURSE they enjoy it. If you give players a MASSIVE advantage, and make it the default, then fine.

FIFA didn't have these assists a few years back, they are a new thing. Never before have we needed to hand the game to people on a plate. More importantly, never before in a SIM game have we needed to basically give people an auto-pilot.

At the end of the day the problem is this. The game is BETTER on manual, by an ABSOLUTE mile. The game is BETTER on semi, by an absolute mile. EA are trying to make a good game. They do not need assists to make it a good game.

The fact that people 'enjoy' winning is not surprising nor relevant. If they are playing offline, they can win. If they are playing online, some rational needs to be set down. The fact alone that assists are the default, and the best makes sure that people like it. It's not an inherent characteristic of assisted that it's more enjoyable - it's the total imbalance and inadequecy of their implementation which makes them more enjoyable for those who don't want to play football.

Enjoying FIFA more with assists is like enjoying Forza more with the auto-brake.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Xaor

"If you want to have a separate leaderboard for AMATEUR players, then fine - that's absolutely reasonable. But that is what you are. If you use assists, and you have time to be on this forum - you are an amateur player, and you ARE ruining everyone else's game."

I, personally like to dip my toe in the metaphorical manual pool from time to time, but I don't have the time or patience to try and master it. I'm an assisted/semi player, don't like it? Filter out the assisted/semi players online.

Problem solved.

[Snowymydog]

Originally Posted by mattdinho

the only thing that bothers me about assisted users, is that they can do what others cant, they can do a pass that curls around the defender and into the path of their own player, yet a manual player can only do a through ball straight, it gives a advantage that a manual user can not repeat, its quite unfair and shouldnt be allowed.

manual user have total control of the ball, it can go to anywhere he wants, its quite unfair and shouldnt be allowed.

[mattdinho]

Originally Posted by Snowymydog

manual user have total control of the ball, it can go to anywhere he wants, its quite unfair and shouldnt be allowed.

so you have never seen a assisted banana pass that curls around the defender perfectly into the run of the attacker? your saying that is fair between assisted users and manual users?

And it cant always go wherever the manual user wants it to because of the fact i have already stated, which is that the manual user cant curl a through ball, yet a assisted user can, its advantageous in certain situations.