Custom tactics suggestions for realistic gameplay in FIFA 09

[JACKNITE]

Originally Posted by lungfull

stop goin on about it for crying out loud.....it doesnt make that much difference....

did you try my suggestion?

Originally Posted by JACKNITE

If you've tried this and enjoyed the game more this way, then I'm honestly glad for you. But, just as a suggestion to see an element of how this effects the game, why not try the following suggestion.

Pick two teams, for the purposes clarity pick man utd as your opponent and a 5* team for yourself. Play two exhibition matches with the same setup. Now change Man Utds tactics to the Barca default one.

How was the difference in gameplay?

[lungfull]

to me every match is different since i dont always do the same things during a game....

[JACKNITE]

Originally Posted by lungfull

to me every match is different since i dont always do the same things during a game....

I'll take that as a no then

[lungfull]

LOOK!!!!

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!

EVERY GAME IS DIFFERENT!!!!

you've done a good job of cluttering up the thread....now please move on....

as i've said before i've played hundreds of games and different teams in different leagues....all with our tactic tweaks....

its not like we're making all the teams in a league play the same way.....for the most part there are maybe 5 teams using one particular tactic....another load using a different one....and another load using their own custom tactic...and so on....

the cpu changes tactics mid game depending on what your doin and what the score is....

i really dont know how else i can spell this out to you.....

you could probably go thru the whole game putting every teams tactics down to zero and youd still get hundreds of different outcomes...

[Sweez]

Originally Posted by lungfull

LOOK!!!!

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!

EVERY GAME IS DIFFERENT!!!!

you've done a good job of cluttering up the thread....now please move on....

as i've said before i've played hundreds of games and different teams in different leagues....all with our tactic tweaks....

its not like we're making all the teams in a league play the same way.....for the most part there are maybe 5 teams using one particular tactic....another load using a different one....and another load using their own custom tactic...and so on....

the cpu changes tactics mid game depending on what your doin and what the score is....

i really dont know how else i can spell this out to you.....

you could probably go thru the whole game putting every teams tactics down to zero and youd still get hundreds of different outcomes...

Good post , nuff said about this now i hope ....

[bluchampblogger]

Originally Posted by lungfull

to me every match is different since i dont always do the same things during a game....

Fantastic response but you can't make him understand because he does not want to.

[bluchampblogger]

Originally Posted by JACKNITE

I have no focus, lol. I kept pointing out one major problem with your suggestion, you just kept calling me stupid for saying it and skirting round the issue.

You have now confirmed that your suggsetion seriously harms the variety in the gameplay and makes it's a pretty stupid thing to do.

Where have confirmed that my suggestion SERIOUSLY HARMS the variety io the gameplay? Don't go twisting words like this! I'm telling you and many others here would tell you how this suggestion has improved FIFA09 experience. And you're saying the suggestion SERIOUSLY HARMING and I confirming it? You really need help. You have a big problem understanding things. Have fun!

People! Help him understand if you can. He offer your support!

[JACKNITE]

Originally Posted by bluchampblogger

Where have confirmed that my suggestion SERIOUSLY HARMS the variety io the gameplay?

Erm, try the quote below...

Originally Posted by bluchampblogger

By creating batches of generic tactics, if one thinks that the tactical variety of the AI is not reduced, s/he must be terribly stupid.

Just because you think that someone that doesn't realise this is stupid it doesn't mean that people might not realise it (or infact mean that they are stupid, which is quite an insulting comment to make about someone who might not have questioned the downside to your suggestion).

If you were aware that there was a downside to your suggestion why not warn people about it in the OP?

When I pointed out this downside you spent 4 pages trying to insult me and avoid the issue I raised, until you finally stated that what I'd said was correct. What was the reason for that? Was your ego getting in the way?

For those that think that there really is enough difference between the different generic tactics, look at the three defensive tactics within one league. They are all basically the same, those very minor differences won't really transfer into the way the teams actually play defensively in the game.

Using this suggestion, if you are good at this game, you will get to know how the CPU will try to defend against you and you'll be able to aply a single stratigic aproach to attacking these teams. This was a mojor issue in previous FIFA games, because after a while you'd get used to how the cpu played and the game would become quite stale. In 09 they added the new tactic system which allowed teams to play in very different ways, not just formations, which has brought a lot more variety to the gameplay.

[lungfull]

i sorry but you could leave things in default....and beat all the teams in the game using the same thru ball....

as with all the other fifa games it takes maybe a season in manger mode and then you know how beat the cpu whatever the tactics...

football in general is a repetative...you kick the ball....pass the ball...try to score or stop another team from scoring....

every team in the world crosses the ball....shoots the ball...tackles....gets bookings....ect ect...

its the skill of the individual players that decides how well a team does....

most teams tactics are worked out around the formation they use....like playing 5 in mid field to stop the oposition passing the ball as much...

the fact that we have leveled out the tactics slighty is more like real football.....no team has a huge advantage as far as what they are "able" to do.....
its up to the oposing team to stop them...and this happens because they have better, stronger, faster....more skillfull players...

[bluchampblogger]

Originally Posted by JACKNITE

Erm, try the quote below...



Just because you think that someone that doesn't realise this is stupid it doesn't mean that people might not realise it (or infact mean that they are stupid, which is quite an insulting comment to make about someone who might not have questioned the downside to your suggestion).

If you were aware that there was a downside to your suggestion why not warn people about it in the OP?

When I pointed out this downside you spent 4 pages trying to insult me and avoid the issue I raised, until you finally stated that what I'd said was correct. What was the reason for that? Was your ego getting in the way?

For those that think that there really is enough difference between the different generic tactics, look at the three defensive tactics within one league. They are all basically the same, those very minor differences won't really transfer into the way the teams actually play defensively in the game.

Using this suggestion, if you are good at this game, you will get to know how the CPU will try to defend against you and you'll be able to aply a single stratigic aproach to attacking these teams. This was a mojor issue in previous FIFA games, because after a while you'd get used to how the cpu played and the game would become quite stale. In 09 they added the new tactic system which allowed teams to play in very different ways, not just formations, which has brought a lot more variety to the gameplay.

Pointless quote that one. I never said that this suggestion would SERIOUSLY HARM the variety of the tactics. It impacts but I don't think it SERIOUSLY HARM as you guess. I'o telling you this out of my experience and not out of theories, analyses, syntheses or formulae.

I did not have to 'warn' people about the disastrous life-ending downsides of my suggestion because anyone with an IQ of 20 would have understood that,

Also the 'downsides' of the unaltered FIFA09 are much more than the tweaked FIFA09.

Final statement: I'm fully convinced that my suggestions improve FIFA09 and that's all that matters. While you're making threads to improve next version of FIFA, I'm trying to improve what we have on hand. I've tweaked it so much that I don't mind even if there is no FIFA10.

[JACKNITE]

Originally Posted by bluchampblogger

Final statement: I'm fully convinced that my suggestions improve FIFA09 and that's all that matters. While you're making threads to improve next version of FIFA, I'm trying to improve what we have on hand. I've tweaked it so much that I don't mind even if there is no FIFA10.

Your other suggestion regarding reducing players speed is certainly valid, in terms of trying to have more build up play. I know this isn't the place to discuss this but how different is the effect compared to the other possiabilities - reducing gameplay speed to slow/increasing match lenght to 7 min halfs (which IMO works really well)

I obviously haven't felt the need for the changes you've suggested (I do actually play more online than off) and it would also take a long time to make a full account of how this suggestion would effect long term gameplay.

However, from playing a limited number of games under the conditions you suggested I noticed a massive difference in gameplay. After three games (different non top 4 teams) I found that, as I thought they would, my opponents became very predictable.

I beat fullham 4-0 with easy and found it a very boring game. In my normal MM they had been a real bogey team for me. I played another three games and then stopped because I found the games just didn't have any of the tension I'd normally expect from the game.

[bluchampblogger]

Originally Posted by JACKNITE

Your other suggestion regarding reducing players speed is certainly valid, in terms of trying to have more build up play. I know this isn't the place to discuss this but how different is the effect compared to the other possiabilities - reducing gameplay speed to slow/increasing match lenght to 7 min halfs (which IMO works really well)

I obviously haven't felt the need for the changes you've suggested (I do actually play more online than off) and it would also take a long time to make a full account of how this suggestion would effect long term gameplay.

However, from playing a limited number of games under the conditions you suggested I noticed a massive difference in gameplay. After three games (different non top 4 teams) I found that, as I thought they would, my opponents became very predictable.

I beat fullham 4-0 with easy and found it a very boring game. In my normal MM they had been a real bogey team for me. I played another three games and then stopped because I found the games just didn't have any of the tension I'd normally expect from the game.

Fair enough. Now you have tried it.Now you're talking out of experience.

This suggestion was made primarily because goalscoring became a boring, stereotyped task. Most of the goals were scored through one-on-ones from through balls. This is a well documented issue of this game, even io this forum. I needed a lot more variety in goalscoring.

To achieve this, I had to make the opponents less naive in defence. I also thought defence must defend deeper than it does in FIFA09. Defence were staying way too up on the pitch provoking through balls and becoming very vulnerable to them. So I tweaked the pressure. I also say that the AI did not tackle me or challenge of enough when I had the ball. So I tweaked the aggression.

If you feel the game is more complete and realistic but it is easy, turn up the difficulty level upto legendary level. You can who some matches convincingly and let that be so. If you beat Fulham 4-0 most of the time, then I'd call it easy. Remember, FIFA's Fulham was made so before they showed fine form this season.

Fulham in Manager Mode is always going to be more difficult because of the AI scripting in the competition modes (my other point on less scripted exhibition mode vs more scripted other modes). And I'm an offline player and all my discomforts and consequent solutions have come from offline play only.

Basically, if you're fine with the way you're scoring your goals, don't change the tactics. I hated the fact that all my goals were (a) from throughballs (b) from one-on-ones (c) always by the strikers (d) from breakaways (e) from uncommitted defending from the opposition. If you don't have any of these issues, you may not have to tweak the tactics. Cheers!

[Liverpool_Fifa]

Hey Blu champ took your tactical advice and boy did they make a difference, it feels so much more fluid now an i'm now creating alot more chances an its all looking good.

Played my 1st game of the season in the manual league i'm in with friends and won 6-0 lol

cheers

[bluchampblogger]

Originally Posted by Liverpool_Fifa

Hey Blu champ took your tactical advice and boy did they make a difference, it feels so much more fluid now an i'm now creating alot more chances an its all looking good.

Played my 1st game of the season in the manual league i'm in with friends and won 6-0 lol

cheers

That's nice to hear! Thanks! Glad I can be of some help. PM me he there's anything else . . .

[JACKNITE]

Originally Posted by bluchampblogger

This suggestion was made primarily because goalscoring became a boring, stereotyped task. Most of the goals were scored through one-on-ones from through balls. This is a well documented issue of this game, even io this forum. I needed a lot more variety in goalscoring.

Agreed, this is a real issue with 09, not just offline - this is a major issue in online. One on ones are certainly far too frequent in 09 a deep defence can reduse this somewhat, but unfortunately makes possetion in midfeild too easy to keep.

A lot of this is down to the basic AI, but part of the issues is specifically to do with the new instruction system that came with the tactics function. When it comes to defending the game treats your whole team as a single unit and when given defensive instruction it's aplied to everyone. In real life coaches deal in units (defence/midfield/attack), where each unit will be told to defend in a certain way - eg. defenders may be told to play deep and stay goalside so they can't easily get beaten on the break, midfielders will be told to contain the opposition and tackle players before they get in the final third so they can break up the build up play, and attackers may be told to either press high or drop back to make more numbers in defense. Also players will be given more detailed individual instruction. (I've touched on this in - Team Tactics Improvements)

TBH I don't think "Legendary" is EVER the answer. Rather than increasing the quality of your opponents AI it just seems to create more scripted play.

I would suggest you try two things; increase match length to 7 min halves, it seems to slow down the gameplay, creating more emphasis on build up play and less opportunities for 1v1s (defenders seem to have that little bit of extra time to react).

Start switching over to manual. It's very hard to get the hang of at first, but it completely changes the gameplay. It makes it a lot harder to make yourself those 1v1s and if you do it takes a lot more skill to beat an on-rushing goalkeeper.

Give them a try and let me know how you get on

[charliecommando]

quite nice actually, pleyed them with my ultimate team and they worked very well

[lungfull]

im playing ten min halves at tlalalalament...

as far as the thru ball thing goes...i dont think we're gonna get away from that whatever we do....

i suppose the thru ball is used pretty heavily in real life football anyway...

[bluchampblogger]

Good point on the tactic system treating the team as one unit. But you know what, you can give individual instructions to players in FIFA09, but there is no scope for details there.

I'm in fact okay with keeping ball in the midfield. At least I can build up my play using my midfielders.

I already play 8 minute halves only nowadays. 50% of my matches are offline multiplayer games (mates vs mates), 40% are co-op offline games (mates vs AI) and 10% are single-player offline games (myself vs AI). We wanted a quality footie game that'll keep us in it every weekend in sessions of about 8 hours. We all are PES lovers in search of a cracking offline multiplayer game.

I've tried my luck at manual but it never worked for me. Because most of my matches are offline with my mates, I never caught on to manual because all there guys must also be comfortable with it.

Anyway, I'll give it a try next week. By the way, I'o awaiting my copy of PES 2009 this week.

[lungfull]

take a look at my thread here folks...i wanna know what ya'll think.

sprinting

if they could get this sorted we would have a much better paced game..

[JACKNITE]

@blu. Don't necessarily go staight to full manual, it takes a lot of getting used to. You can phase in aspects. IMO thru balls are the best thing to start with. If you struggle with any then try them on semi for a while.

TBH I'm not a big fan of Manual, but that's probably because I'm 99% online and against an assisted human oponent isn't good (unless you've already mastered manual).

Speak to your friends about trying it too - "clubs" games (any single player control mode) with manual is truly amazing (amazingly difficult too)

[lungfull]

Originally Posted by JACKNITE

@blu. Don't necessarily go staight to full manual, it takes a lot of getting used to. You can phase in aspects. IMO thru balls are the best thing to start with. If you struggle with any then try them on semi for a while.

TBH I'm not a big fan of Manual, but that's probably because I'm 99% online and against an assisted human oponent isn't good (unless you've already mastered manual).

Speak to your friends about trying it too - "clubs" games (any single player control mode) with manual is truly amazing (amazingly difficult too)

i have everything on manual apart from passing which i have on semi assisted..i find that it makes the short passing lelalalala n miss....but still gives you control over it...after all most pro players can make an accurate short pass most of the time.

[wipsnadepoo]

bluchamp i have used all your suggestions on everysingle player (all leagues - now doing international teams).... has taken me a few months on my xbox360 - but well worth it, it also meant that i could get rid of all the generic boots in the game - i only play off line in MM and with mates. i can't recommend your suggestion highly enough. I always play 10min halves and have most settings on manual, world class (the game now plays beautiful football with some incredible goals - very unscripted play). I have made a fantastic discovery with editing sound effects and will create a seperate thread once i have completed my testing =P

that is my 2 cents worth =)

[bluchampblogger]

Jack

Good idea. I'll start with thru balls. The most important things for me are realism and fun - in equal proportions. I hope we get used to manual soon!

Originally Posted by wipsnadepoo

bluchamp i have used all your suggestions on everysingle player (all leagues - now doing international teams).... has taken me a few months on my xbox360 - but well worth it, it also meant that i could get rid of all the generic boots in the game - i only play off line in MM and with mates. i can't recommend your suggestion highly enough. I always play 10min halves and have most settings on manual, world class (the game now plays beautiful football with some incredible goals - very unscripted play). I have made a fantastic discovery with editing sound effects and will create a seperate thread once i have completed my testing =P

that is my 2 cents worth =)

Great, thanks! That's exactly why I love my FIFA09 and why I play it for so many hours! After editing and tweaking, I'd say that's the best football game I've ever played!

[T-Mills-85]

Originally Posted by bluchampblogger

Jack

Good idea. I'll start with thru balls. The important things for of are realism

Manual just takes time. if i was to offer any advice, i would say the usual "dont get despondent when you lose" etc etc and also that the short passing using X/A is flawed and its a much better option to use Y/triangle for short passes and A/X for longer ground through balls.

just my opinion but see how you get on.

[Liverpool_Fifa]

Originally Posted by T-Mills-85

Manual just takes time. if i was to offer any advice, i would say the usual "dont get despondent when you lose" etc etc and also that the short passing using X/A is flawed and its a much better option to use Y/triangle for short passes and A/X for longer ground through balls.

just my opinion but see how you get on.

Yeah I agree with millsy, me and him started playing manual at the exact same time which was about 3 weeks ago and now were pretty good players , so it only takes abit of practice, maybe an hour a night and you'll have the hang of it in no time .