Why is the gameplay not next-gen?

[Rhipz]

ROFL Yes Phenom, I see you didn't include GTA 4 in your list, becasue without a doubt everyone here knows, GTA requires much more CPU power then Fifa. Yet november has its release debut on the pc?? What do you say about that. At least Rockstar isn't as money hungry as EA... Just admit it, you can't be bothered to place consoles Fifa on the PC, because it'll take to long to Port or develop the engine and you want to profit from as many people as possible so releasing Fifa 2005 with new graphics would work for everyone.

THE BOTTOM LINE... IF IT CAN WORK ON 360 IT CAN WORK ON THE STANDARD PC TODAY.

[thuda1991]

Originally Posted by BLaZiNgSPEED

The gameplay is as good as Next Generation
Well if not as a whole its a wonderful game and will be very fun to play both online and offline. Tricks are easier to make then ever before! I managed to do the Ronaldinhos tricks quite easily with less effort, thats a bug improvement, that changes the gameplay in some ways.

I agree the gameplay is as good as NG (at least the NG I've played, which was EURO 2008 on 360)...

[PlayFifajo]

Originally Posted by thuda1991

I agree the gameplay is as good as NG (at least the NG I've played, which was EURO 2008 on 360)...

You talk lalalala !

[SoccerPC]

Originally Posted by EAUK_Phenom

I wouldn't say that FIFA09 on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 has "much, much better graphics" than FIFA09 on PC, but that's a matter of opinion.

FIFA09 on PC was optimized so that it has the best possible graphics and gameplay engine, while still being accessible to as many fans of the game as possible (so if the game had better graphics, it would require a better graphics card, and it wouldn't be as accessible to the fans of the game).


Phenom

How come you guys say AI is not scalable but graphics is scalable.if so , you are contradicting your own word EA , if graphics is scalabel why not make pc the best graphics even better than xbox360 and ps3 and let ppl with pentium 4/celeron or 8400 gs/low agp guys scale it down and ppl like us having high end pc can enjoy the real true graphics?

honestly saying the demo graphics is horrible ,not upto the standerd of todays.

and i have enough proof that a ps3/xbox360 is less poerful than a pc with core 2 duo + 8600 GT ( not even 8800 gt) + 2 Gb of ram. So stop making foolish comment about PC.with my my rig described in my signature , i can play crysis with assasin's creed smulteniously.So do a research before making a foolish comment that make u look jerk.

[PlayFifajo]

Agree the graphics are less quality , next gen graphics are far away from what we have now . When i play the demo i always have eyes ache because of horrbile colours and graphics.And btw i have a friend wich has Ps3 and i've played the demo...the gameplay is so realistic comparing with robotic moves of PC version.

[miharuhk]

Originally Posted by EAUK_Phenom

Before I go on, I'd like to point out that Graphics power and CPU power are two very different technical parameters, and it's because of the CPU power that FIFA09 on PC can not (and does not) have the same architecture as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions. The Graphics are a separate matter, and FIFA09 on PC has leading-edge graphics.

With that said, please allow me to further explain what I said earlier in this thread, as I believe that some of you may have misunderstood;



[1] I am aware that some PC systems are as capable as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 (and that some are even more capable than them), but the majority of PC systems aren't (see [4]).

[2] The fact that a PC system can run Gears of War, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc. is irrelevant: the gameplay architecture of FIFA09 can not be compared to games of a different genre, and it is a fact that the majority of PC systems do not have enough CPU processing power for FIFA09 on PC to be the same as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions.

[3] This means that, although some of your PC's may be able to 'handle' a better gameplay architecture, only 1-3% of PC systems on the market could 'handle' the same gameplay architecture that FIFA09 on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 have (see [4]).

[4] "If the architecture was identical to the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions, FIFA09 on PC would only be accessible to 1-3% of the PC systems on the market." That is a fact.

However, because the PC continues to benefit from constant graphics and performance increases (and always will), the FIFA series on the PC will continue to improve each year, and it's architecture will, in time, 'surpass/exceed' the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 versions.
I didn't say that FIFA 2010 on PC will (or won't) be the same as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of the game (because I do not know whether it will (or won't) be, at this moment in time).


Thank you for the constructive feedback that most of you have provided on this subject, so far.

Phenom

I want to know about point2. The question is why all other PC company can easy to migrate their NG console game, but only Fifa can't. You know FIFA is the unique game in PC different to NG console!

[SaberBlade83]

I cannot understand why a decent dual core computer (which is the most common system these days btw) wouldn't be able to run a NG FIFA? By the looks of things (ok it's only a demo) FIFA09 doesn't even take full advatage of a P4 system? It's nowhere near 100% CPU load on my P4 PC with everything set on max...or does this mean graphics and stuff aren't very scalable at all on the demo? Cause I see minimal difference in performance and quality when changing the settings on a 3 year old budget gfx card, 1GB RAM and P4 3,2Ghz. Framerate is around 22-28 on the demo, except on cutscenes. This is with a 2,5-3 year old PC...

So I must ask why would it be so hard to make a decent NG version for PC? Alright, we have more players on the pitch, they need to move as realisticlly as possible and be able to make own decisions. You have the ball, it needs as realistic physics as possible. And then we have the animations obviously. If we skip the action type of games and look no further than GRID and PES, both sport games. GRID has a lot of physics for several cars as well as taking into acount with weather and what effect it has on the surface (roads, dirt and grass) and your car. And great graphics. Doesn't need a monster computer to handle that game, most of todays PCs can handle it.

PES then. We see a whole different kind of physics in that one. And PES08 worked well on my old P4 machine. It ain't proper next gen, but with ball physics you have a pretty realistic game in that area. What is the reason EA cannot even make the ball act as it should? If I'm not misstaken PES also takes weather into account, how it affects gameplay. These are just small things that EA hasn't managed to get grips on after all these years. Gameplay sees minimal changes each year, for the better? Sure. But so much more can be done. We aren't in the 90's anymore. Most people who play games on PC, be that FIFA, GRID or Crysis...they will have a decent enough PC to handle next gen. Not to mention it wouldnt be too hard to scale the game. Have a switch on/off for new AI, ball physics and graphics and people with both old and new PCs could enjoy it.

The very least you could expect is FIFA to be a hybrid on the PC. Add how weather affect the ball and players, add some realistic ball physics (if modders can, surley EA can too?!), add some more free motion to players, add some better AI for computer controlled team (use the wings!), make the ref's actually get involved in the game, update the crowd (have them wear club colors and not jumping throughout the entire match!), skip the cutscenes and let players run around celebrating freely (for goodness sake this was even in FIFA98 for cryin out loud! Why remove it?!) and voila you have a much improved game without even having to port it from the consoles! IT WON'T recuire some sort of NASA system to run it...in fact it would probably work well on the worst C2D processors even.

Heh, sorry for the long post. It bacame a much longer rant than it was supposed to be. Last question: how does EA know that only 1-3% of FIFA gamers have good enough PCs? Have you actually asked them? Have you even asked them what they want? The only reason I can see FIFA beeing to difficult to make NG on PC is that EA can't optimize it so it CAN run on a PC...but that's down to them not beeing good enough, or not wanting to take the time to make it stable enough for the PC. But just change the current game/engine, don't even have to port it from the 360/PS3 to make it a good game! In fact it would be better to have a PC game built from ground up.

[siew]

NG or not is an important image. FIFA PC's graphic level fell behind for a long time. Most players see FIFA PC as a second-class game under Xbox, PS3 and PES. The damage is serious than market rate. Players will buy a new computer for a good game, like Crysis.

[harcar]

because PC is a bad platform for gaming

see it Addressing the Core Issues - Peter Moore Blog

- The PC as a platform for authentic, fully-licensed, simulation sports games has declined radically in the past three years as the next generation consoles, with their high definition graphics and 5.1 sound capabilities have attracted millions of consumers to eschew the “lean in” PC sports gaming experience for the “lean back” full room console experience.

- The business model for PC games is evolving from packaged goods to a download model. The on-line experience is paramount, and hundreds of companies in this space are experimenting with direct-to-consumer revenue models, incorporating premium downloadable content, sponsored downloads, micro-transactions, subscriptions and massive tournament play.


- Piracy is an issue. Sorry, I know many of you disagree with me on this, but the numbers don’t lie. Companies spend millions developing content, and deserve to see a return on investment for their risk. The employees developing the game design, writing code and creating art deserve to get paid for their work. Period.

- Businesses have to make hard trade offs for where to invest for the best return, thus creating capital to make even more games. They have to take expensive risks in our hits and misses industry with new intellectual property to keep the games available to gamers fresh, innovative and pushing the technical boundaries of the hardware platforms. I know this concept touches a nerve with some of you, but our industry is founded on publishers that have driven for financially-successful games and then re-invested the proceeds in development of even more content for gamers to enjoy. It’s a simple financial premise, and an obligation for publically-traded companies who answer to their shareholders. We are not making games in garages or bedrooms any more.


- In order to make fundamental shifts in an ecosystem, you sometimes have to hit the reset button. That’s what we have done this year at EA SPORTS as regards some of our franchises on the PC. That does not mean that we aren’t coming back next year with new, innovative, maybe even less-expensive ways to play all of our franchises on the PC, but for right now we are assessing all of the options open to us to shift the current paradigm for our games on this platform.

[lampuiho12345]

XBOX360 uses a XENON cpu made by IBM. Look at this: Xenon Hardware Overview - Scenyx Entertainment Community
I'm sure a E7200 with SSE4 will perform much better

[AlaaEG88]

Originally Posted by EAUK_Phenom

I wouldn't say that FIFA09 on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 has "much, much better graphics" than FIFA09 on PC, but that's a matter of opinion.

FIFA09 on PC was optimized so that it has the best possible graphics and gameplay engine, while still being accessible to as many fans of the game as possible (so if the game had better graphics, it would require a better graphics card, and it wouldn't be as accessible to the fans of the game).

Phenom

I thought that's why they made video options available, to make a game compatible with a wide range of computers! Take FEAR as an example, it had options to set CPU processing to low.

[FlashXAron]

Bye the way ... that so called "outoftheworld" graphics from NG Consoles (PS3 special) for FIFA is only 1280x720 pixels ... and some even say it isn't ...

I have one of the most expensive FULL HD displays you could technical get, an SONY FULL HD VPL-50 SXD Projector (which even could display that so called best mode for looking movies the 1080/24p format ... 24 frames a second, so watching cinema movies without out of sync ... anyway)

If you see PS3 on my 3m cinema projection screen, you get sick after some time as it is terrible unsharp and blurry ... (apart from the really perfect gameplay ... woow wonderful compared to PC) but if I turn on my Fifa2009 demo with all at maximum and FULL 1920x1080 with 60hz ,,, damn that is a sharp picture and the menues also ... and smooth running with lalalala gameplay

So somehow my PC could handle a lot more (Q6600 OC + 8800GTX OC and it is 2 years old now) ...

So my PS3 WILL NEVER DELIVER me a FULL HD FIFA game, as all say it would be sluggish than, so my hope is still with FIFA PC ... BUT NOT THAT YEAR ...

PS3, outoftheworld gameplay, only 720p (terrible at full HD high quality displays)

PC, sharp colorful 1920x1080 graphics (menues, lines, even grass) , but terrible robotic gameplay and movements ... and no love for details (hair, shorts ... because the engine has too few objects)

So what to do this year ? Think still clear, the PS3 Version
EVEN THE PS3 Version is double the money to buy ...

[TheKingRH]

@ harcar

Piracy is NOT an issue.

(at least not an issue to justify scrapping most of their sports titles on the PC)

EA Sports games don't get pirated more than every other PC game. I won't even begin to start listing all the good examples of successful PC games titles (most of them were heavily pirated as well).

So what makes the EA Sports situation special, apart from the fact that their president, Peter Moore, is a console fan-boy?

The reason we have seen what we have seen recently with scrapped EA Sports titles and relatively poor quality Fifa 09, is that EA Sports operate a kind of: 'shoot themselves in the foot' mentality.

They produce inferior lalalala for the PC year in and year out, and yet they expect healthy sales. Then when the sales figures dwindle to a certain low point, they make the inevitable decision to scrap the game.

Then they explain that it's because certain low powered PC's won't be able to play next gen. They want to maximize sales by including low spec "non-gaming" PCs that shouldn't really be playing modern 3D games in the first place.

But the real dilemma is that the sales will continue to drop. I wonder why?

Let me tell you why. It's because the PC version is not 'next gen'.

If they want sales, then they need to produce something worth buying and stop insulting PC gamers by expecting us to downgrade to lower powered consoles in order to play the better versions of their games.


The world is bigger than EA Sports.
Gametrailers.com - Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 - GC 2008: Seabass Interview HD
Gametrailers.com - Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 - UEFA Champions League Trailer HD
Gametrailers.com - Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 - GC 2008: Debut Teaser HD

[miharuhk]

I gonna buy PES 2009 in PC and FIFA09 in Xbox360. I still remember the first platform of fifa is PC and it is sad to see fifa PC in this situation.

[miharuhk]

Originally Posted by SoccerPC

How come you guys say AI is not scalable but graphics is scalable.if so , you are contradicting your own word EA , if graphics is scalabel why not make pc the best graphics even better than xbox360 and ps3 and let ppl with pentium 4/celeron or 8400 gs/low agp guys scale it down and ppl like us having high end pc can enjoy the real true graphics?

honestly saying the demo graphics is horrible ,not upto the standerd of todays.

and i have enough proof that a ps3/xbox360 is less poerful than a pc with core 2 duo + 8600 GT ( not even 8800 gt) + 2 Gb of ram. So stop making foolish comment about PC.with my my rig described in my signature , i can play crysis with assasin's creed smulteniously.So do a research before making a foolish comment that make u look jerk.

Yes!It is really contradictive! At least the graphic should look same as NG console! Why EA still give this suck graphic based on the current generation!

[The Doctor76]

Originally Posted by harcar

because PC is a bad platform for gaming

Rubbish. PCs have more memory, more HDD space, they're upgradeable, patches are more frequent and last but not least, games can be modded. Oh and of course, there are far more types of games on PC than consoles and they're much cheaper.

[The Doctor76]

Originally Posted by EAUK_Phenom

Before I go on, I'd like to point out that Graphics power and CPU power are two very different technical parameters, and it's because of the CPU power that FIFA09 on PC can not (and does not) have the same architecture as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions. The Graphics are a separate matter, and FIFA09 on PC has leading-edge graphics.

With that said, please allow me to further explain what I said earlier in this thread, as I believe that some of you may have misunderstood;



[1] I am aware that some PC systems are as capable as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 (and that some are even more capable than them), but the majority of PC systems aren't (see [4]).

[2] The fact that a PC system can run Gears of War, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc. is irrelevant: the gameplay architecture of FIFA09 can not be compared to games of a different genre, and it is a fact that the majority of PC systems do not have enough CPU processing power for FIFA09 on PC to be the same as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions.

[3] This means that, although some of your PC's may be able to 'handle' a better gameplay architecture, only 1-3% of PC systems on the market could 'handle' the same gameplay architecture that FIFA09 on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 have (see [4]).

[4] "If the architecture was identical to the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions, FIFA09 on PC would only be accessible to 1-3% of the PC systems on the market." That is a fact.

However, because the PC continues to benefit from constant graphics and performance increases (and always will), the FIFA series on the PC will continue to improve each year, and it's architecture will, in time, 'surpass/exceed' the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 versions.
I didn't say that FIFA 2010 on PC will (or won't) be the same as the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of the game (because I do not know whether it will (or won't) be, at this moment in time).


Thank you for the constructive feedback that most of you have provided on this subject, so far.

Phenom

Oh will you just stop fobbing us off with that rubbish? EA are the only damn company who are still coding games so they will work on ancient PCs! Everyone else's policy is: If you've got a machine that'll run it on max detail, good for you! If you've got a machine that'll run it with some details turned down, great! Otherwise, TOUGH!

They don't compromise on AI/Physics or graphics. Only EA do, so once again, us PC owners have to settle for either:

PES: Chances are will have great gameplay/ball physics, but no depth and sod all leagues or Fifa: All the leagues you want, and tons of depth, coupled to a good game, but one that completely misses out any kind of aerial battle. 'If it's in the game, it's in the game?' What game would that be then, EA? Table football? Because that's the only type of football I've ever seen that has no aerial battles and where the players struggle to head the ball more than a few yards. I can head further than that and I'm rubbish at football! The older Fifa games could do it, PES can do it and all on PC. So what is your excuse for it not being in a Fifa game since Fifa 2003/04?? Because the PCs around then were nowhere near as good as they are now, yet they seemed to manage far more realistic ball physics and aerial battles.

As I said before, instead of crapping around with pointless inclusions such as 'mouse control' in a bloody football game, you should get all the basics right and that includes being able to head the ball up in the air and more than a few yards away!

[AriseForLife]

Originally Posted by The Doctor76

As I said before, instead of crapping around with pointless inclusions such as 'mouse control' in a bloody football game, you should get all the basics right and that includes being able to head the ball up in the air and more than a few yards away!

Why are you so damn stuck on the heading of the ball? Heading does not define an entire game. Why not form a petition to scrap FIFA and remake the game as FIFA: Heading and Aerial Battles 09.

Every post that I see on this board that comes from you is about heading, heading, aerial battles, heading, more about heading, etc. There is more to a game than heading.

Did you see Manchester United and Liverpool today? Less than 4% of the game was in the air, the game was won because the ball went into the net, not because of aerial battles.

[The Doctor76]

Originally Posted by AriseForLife

Why are you so damn stuck on the heading of the ball? Heading does not define an entire game. Why not form a petition to scrap FIFA and remake the game as FIFA: Heading and Aerial Battles 09.

Every post that I see on this board that comes from you is about heading, heading, aerial battles, heading, more about heading, etc. There is more to a game than heading.

Did you see Manchester United and Liverpool today? Less than 4% of the game was in the air, the game was won because the ball went into the net, not because of aerial battles.

I'm 'stuck' on them because they're the one part of the game that is not represented at all in Fifa 09! They add a lot of unpredictability to any football match. And since you mentioned today's game, at one point, there was a 'head tennis' session that went on for four or five headers, during which the ball was being headed out of the Utd half, into the Liverpool half and back again. In Fifa 09, they struggle to head the ball a few yards, let alone out of their half. When a defender clears the ball with their head in real life, it goes miles. In Fifa 09, it goes a few yards, resulting in the opposition picking it up again in a dangerous situation. The reason why I'm not happy is if they were properly represented in PC Fifa 09 (as they apparently are in NG Fifa 09), then this game would be almost perfect. I think that's a reason to be slightly unhappy after waiting a whole year for this game.

The whole game feels more natural to me. I like the passing, it's nice and slick. Playing a long diagonal ball to your forward is a joy, shooting (although a touch easy in this demo) is improved: the AI doesn't chip when it should shoot anymore, but when the ball goes up in the air and a player just heads/chests it down, the natural feeling goes out of the window.

[Bradbury]

Originally Posted by EAUK_Phenom

[4] "If the architecture was identical to the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions, FIFA09 on PC would only be accessible to 1-3% of the PC systems on the market." That is a fact.

Sure it is. Sure it is...

I'm not giving completely up on this game yet, I'll just wait and see what you'll cook up for the Wii.

[FDBonline]

I can't understand who PES can have such sharp graphics and gameplay (whethe it's too fast and running animations suck) and you come to say a soccer game can't be build as a console one. I mean for years Konami has been making straight ports from consoles to PC.

[BLaZiNgSPEED]

Isn't EA supposed to be a richer company than Konami?!?!
So how comes a poorer company is making a better game (PES) than a richer company like EA who makes recycled games like (FIFA).
I bet Crysis Warhead is also another recycled Crysis game..

[Bogdancg88]

Originally Posted by BLaZiNgSPEED

Isn't EA supposed to be a richer company than Konami?!?!
So how comes a poorer company is making a better game (PES) than a richer company like EA who makes recycled games like (FIFA).
I bet Crysis Warhead is also another recycled Crysis game..

Yes it is! Same graphic engine! Because is an expantion! But the gameplay is so awsome!

[iwaitforfifa10]

One Thing Ea Didn't Make The Game Crytek Made The Game

[Bogdancg88]

Originally Posted by iwaitforfifa10

One Thing Ea Didn't Make The Game Crytek Made The Game

Yes! You are wright!