Message for Mr van Dyke regarding Spectator Mode/Killcam

[Nakam]

Gordon,

I watched all your video interviews and listened to all your audio interviews with the likes of BashandSlash.

The reason I was most interested to hear you talk about a Battlefield series game on a predominantly COD4 community site is that the guys who do the interviews ask the questions from all angles, they love to hear about the mods and they love to hear good news for the competitive community as well as the new features and gameplay based news that you'd expect. Thankfully, you did tell us some nice things about the PC version of the game. We also heard you've been heavily involved in previous games in the Battlefield series and also Battlefield Series mods as well, which was music to BASHandSlash ears when referring to developers support for mod tools, and in support of the future of competitive gaming.

One thing that we haven't heard much about on an official front is Spectator Mode and a 1st Person Killcam. As has been touched on in many gaming forums, 1st person spectator mode is vitally important to monitor cheating on the PC online and offline. There are already many systems in-place that use this kind of functionality to monitor for players who are not playing the game the way it's supposed to be played, including the popular ESL Aequitas system (read more here) .

There's also many other benefits to 1st Person Spectator mode, for example it allows for broadcasting of live competitive games from the likes of rushTV who have been supporting the BF2 community for the majority of 2009 with live streamed games from ESL, eSportHeaven and Clanbase tournaments. The last broadcast that rushTV did a few days ago had over 1100 unique viewers at one point (and has nearly 200,000 views overall - source) - for a 4 year old "dead" game this is no mean feat.

To continue and develop on this kind of community support and to try and integrate a Battlefield title along with the likes of Counterstrike and Call of Duty series games, we ask you to please include spectator mode and 1st Person Killcam and a record function in the final release of BFBC2.

For example, you could make it a Server function that can be turned off and on so that both sides of the fence of public/private gameplay can be kept happy.

1st Person Killcam, Spectator mode and record will allow the competitive community to finally take advantage of crucial functionality to allow competitive gameplay to flourish, but has up until now been sadly lacking in Battlefield games (yet is included in Call of Duty 4 - /record is accessable from the console, killcam and spec mode was implemented properly in the promodLIVE competitive mod).

There is a burgeoning scene out there and this game is going to very, very popular on PC if you GET IT RIGHT. DICE and EA have an opportunity to gather a huge number of new and old players back to dust off the old mice and keyboards and get stuck into something really special. However, if you miss out on some of the basics like spectator mode and killcam, you're missing a chance to attract 1000s more players from other games who are used to this kind of functionality. If you miss it out, it will be seen as inferior.

There are game modders out there who are patiently waiting for news about mod tools. They would surely love to furnish you with all you need to implement this. You could also speak with the guys behind promodLIVE who created a fantastic spectator mode for thier competitive mod of COD4.

All I'm saying Gordon, is that there is something out there that a lot of people are just EXPECTING to see in a 2010 release game. Please don't miss it out.

Need more info? I'll give you pages worth of contacts and further info if you PM me or ask a rep to do it.

Cheers,
Nakam

[El_Shiznit]

Quality thread, though I'd like to say that first-person demos are equally as important, if not more important, as first-person spectator mode.

[Nakam]

Originally Posted by El_Shiznit

Quality thread, though I'd like to say that first-person demos are equally as important, if not more important, as first-person spectator mode.

+1 on this mate, a BIG +1

One thing at a time though, record mode shouldn't be too hard to implement, they did it in COD4 and I'm trusting that GvD has heard enough about record mode from other threads.

I hope so anyway!?

[motiv999]

Record mode is a must on PC gaming. Without it you end up with claims of cheating left, right and centre.

1st person Spec mode is another that all competitive games have in.

killcam is always off in matches, so no need for 1st person on that

no idea what that anti-cheat is but I suspect it's something like Xray (screengrabber and process checker?)

[tito1]

nice1 GvD no hide foe this game

[Vapo-KAAOS]

>rush are pro.

<3 >rush TV.


Yah very good thread. DICE you should listen to this stuff if you want to game to be even remotely successful on the PC.

[Nakam]

hehe thanks, I agree 100% though, record mode is very very important as well.

[Gogeku]

1st person recording & 1st person spectate mode are both very important things

[MaydaX]

I agree. First person spec and demo recoding are very important. It's a big reason hackers don't care as much in BF2 and BF2142. It also gives server admins piece of mind knowing they can spec a person to see if they are cheating or not.

[M4 Ownag3]

Cool thread,bro.

[rushborn]

Implement these features and the PC version will be awesome!

[ROBelMERCENARIO]

I want a PC

[Hauler]

Great post, but I highly disagree with the kill cam of any kind.

[GehakteMolen]

we need killcam/ 1ste person spec mode for sure, AND it should be server side setting, so ppl/admins can decide whether or not they want it.

1ste person demo`s (like cod 4) would be rly nice aswell, and there are no real disadvantages for ppl who dont like it, they dont get harmed in anyway

ps: otherwise make spec mode only available for NON-ranked/private servers, so ppl who want to play matches etc can use it, while ppl playing ranked (public) dont have to, this way both sides are happy

@ hauler why dont u want killcam/ 1ste person Spec mode? games like cod2/4 got this for years and years....

[Spawnie051]

Admins being able to see the players from first person is not a new thing, I don't know why they forgot about it and why they don't implement it no more, I guess it all died with the UT series, even Americas Army had one sheesh, bummer. Hope they put this in cuz lots can be done with it and cheaters would be easier to track and document. You put that in a game and you got a pro product.

[Nakam]

Originally Posted by Spawnie051

Admins being able to see the players from first person is not a new thing, I don't know why they forgot about it and why they don't implement it no more, I guess it all died with the UT series, even Americas Army had one sheesh, bummer. Hope they put this in cuz lots can be done with it and cheaters would be easier to track and document. You put that in a game and you got a pro product.

Exactly, BF:BC2 will be on dedicated servers and thus servers will have admins. Admins will have the ability to quickly spectate a suspicious player, and any cheating will become obvious. This is obviously very important for mantaining stability and integrity.

Having the ability to document this correctly with a record function will elevate BF:BC2 from good looking, playable pub game to good looking, playable and usable competitive game. The benefits to DICE, not to mention EA, would surely outweigh any extra work that was involved in implementing this. If you can attract 100000 competitive gamers over to BF:BC2 from other games by showing that you have considered their input and thier needs, you will gain a huge amount of respect for anyone who considers themself anything other than a casual PC gamer (modders, professional gamers, clan players, etc) - which as GvD knows himself, is a LOT of people.

[Nakam]

Originally Posted by motiv999

Record mode is a must on PC gaming. Without it you end up with claims of cheating left, right and centre.

1st person Spec mode is another that all competitive games have in.

killcam is always off in matches, so no need for 1st person on that

no idea what that anti-cheat is but I suspect it's something like Xray (screengrabber and process checker?)

In ESL, they use Aequitas with games like COD4 and Counter Strike in conjunction with Punkbuster, PBBans or Game Violations streaming services.

In BF2, there's no first person or dedicated record function, only BR files. This is why it's so hard to catch hackers on Battlefield and partly why the game has not persisted in the same way COD4 did.

[Nakamp]

Hi there, I'm Nakamp (not the OP ), I've been into moviemaking in many different games and of course I agree with this.

What features regarding this topic do I want the game to include (and many people would probably love)?

First person demos

• ability to record anything ingame, depending on how much you are allowed to see. Ingame - only what you see, in spectator mode - everything (what all the players see + freecam)
• also server demos (basicaly same as spectator's demos, but started by rcon)

Spectator mode

• With possibility to switch player you are watchin, freecam etc.

BFTV

• Similar to Valve's HLTV or SourceTV - Spectators of the TV would be able to do same as people in Spectator mode, but wouldn't be able to join game, type in global chat etc.
• The TV (running on separate or same machine as the server) would then connect into the game (through rcon commands) as a spectator and people would connect to the TV, not server, so the load of the server isn't effected by thousands of people watching (which isn't rare in CS1.6/CS:S)
• Ability to record demos of TV too

Demo player

• ingame
• including fast forward, go to time needed, slow motion, pause
• recording into uncompressed video or image sequences in framerate you want (!)
• with ability to add camera, move it where you want and record what the camera sees (known as 'demo smoothing') with some nice keyframing system and some settings of the camera would be nice (depth of field, field of view etc.)

Kill Cam

• Well, not really important for me, but I wouldn't mind it

Also don't forget about disabling mouse accelleration which was in all PC Battlefield games as far as I know. I hope to see all of this in the beta or at least after some patching or in BF3 ().

[Nakam]

Originally Posted by Nakamp

Hi there, I'm Nakamp (not the OP ), I've been into moviemaking in many different games and of course I agree with this.

What features regarding this topic do I want the game to include (and many people would probably love)?

First person demos

• ability to record anything ingame, depending on how much you are allowed to see. Ingame - only what you see, in spectator mode - everything (what all the players see + freecam)
• also server demos (basicaly same as spectator's demos, but started by rcon)

Spectator mode

• With possibility to switch player you are watchin, freecam etc.

BFTV

• Similar to Valve's HLTV or SourceTV - Spectators of the TV would be able to do same as people in Spectator mode, but wouldn't be able to join game, type in global chat etc.
• The TV (running on separate or same machine as the server) would then connect into the game (through rcon commands) as a spectator and people would connect to the TV, not server, so the load of the server isn't effected by thousands of people watching (which isn't rare in CS1.6/CS:S)
• Ability to record demos of TV too

Demo player

• ingame
• including fast forward, go to time needed, slow motion, pause
• recording into uncompressed video or image sequences in framerate you want (!)
• with ability to add camera, move it where you want and record what the camera sees (known as 'demo smoothing') with some nice keyframing system and some settings of the camera would be nice (depth of field, field of view etc.)

Kill Cam

• Well, not really important for me, but I wouldn't mind it

Also don't forget about disabling mouse accelleration which was in all PC Battlefield games as far as I know. I hope to see all of this in the beta or at least after some patching or in BF3 ().

SICK POST!

Epic win, this game needs all of the above. Come on DICE give some feedback?!

[ErrorCode6942]

Yea,h please put kill-cam in the PC. But please, for all sake of keeping much more of the audience sane, keep it out of the console form.

[jblackrupert]

Originally Posted by ErrorCode6942

Yea,h please put kill-cam in the PC. But please, for all sake of keeping much more of the audience sane, keep it out of the console form.

No thanks. we don't need handholding features.

[Bigpigpl2]

Killcam would be nice, but not totally necesary if 1st person demos are implemented.

I can't count the amount of times in BF2 i've had rage moments and ended up shouting down vent "HOW THE **** DID HE KILL ME THERE!?! THATS IMPOSSIBLE!!".
I'm not saying I don't rage as much in COD, but at least 3 seconds later I can see how I died and i don't spend the rest of the game in a lalalala mood.

Please Dice, for the sake of my sanity and the wellbeing of all the breakable items on my desk, please put 1st person demos in at the very least.

[5h4d]

Originally Posted by Nakamp

Hi there, I'm Nakamp (not the OP ), I've been into moviemaking in many different games and of course I agree with this.

What features regarding this topic do I want the game to include (and many people would probably love)?

First person demos

• ability to record anything ingame, depending on how much you are allowed to see. Ingame - only what you see, in spectator mode - everything (what all the players see + freecam)
• also server demos (basicaly same as spectator's demos, but started by rcon)

Spectator mode

• With possibility to switch player you are watchin, freecam etc.

BFTV

• Similar to Valve's HLTV or SourceTV - Spectators of the TV would be able to do same as people in Spectator mode, but wouldn't be able to join game, type in global chat etc.
• The TV (running on separate or same machine as the server) would then connect into the game (through rcon commands) as a spectator and people would connect to the TV, not server, so the load of the server isn't effected by thousands of people watching (which isn't rare in CS1.6/CS:S)
• Ability to record demos of TV too

Demo player

• ingame
• including fast forward, go to time needed, slow motion, pause
• recording into uncompressed video or image sequences in framerate you want (!)
• with ability to add camera, move it where you want and record what the camera sees (known as 'demo smoothing') with some nice keyframing system and some settings of the camera would be nice (depth of field, field of view etc.)

Kill Cam

• Well, not really important for me, but I wouldn't mind it

Also don't forget about disabling mouse accelleration which was in all PC Battlefield games as far as I know. I hope to see all of this in the beta or at least after some patching or in BF3 ().

Best post I've seen for a long time

[Vapo-KAAOS]

Originally Posted by ErrorCode6942

Yea,h please put kill-cam in the PC. But please, for all sake of keeping much more of the audience sane, keep it out of the console form.

Originally Posted by jblackrupert

No thanks. we don't need handholding features.

What he said. Because we aren't noobs. (And then the rage began)

[4l3xXx]

I did a thread about this weeks ago and it got burried under a huge pile of meaningless threads here.

This is a very important issue and maybe we can make this sticky too, even more because there is no official word yet from a dev, except that there will be no mod tools at release.

@ Nakam: I'm very much into ESL and other leagues (ESL.de)and I know exactly what features a supported game needs to have.
There is not much time after release until a game that doesn't support anti-cheat friendly tools like spectator or 1st person view - gets kicked from the list.
6 months maximum.

Devs need to keep in mind that this game will attract a lot of players from CoD and especially these are used to what we demand.
BTW. I just wasted 30 minutes of time playing MW2 online - geez that game sucks.

This thread needs to be kept alive.