Isla Inocentes = Broken

GFUNKSOUND2 · 25-05-2010, 02:41 PM

First of all, Isla Inocentes WAS (past tense) all about blackhawk play and how skilled a pilot you were determined how long you lasted in the air. A skill BH pilot COULD (past tense) really help his team.

After DICE caved into the noobs and buffed the tracer dart to Laser Dart making the Blackhawk useless, Isla Inocentes attackers are kinda left to swim or boat to the main island, both of which gets you spotted or killed.

Add this to the fact that more people are realizing if you get 4 guys up on that first hill where noobs always snipe from at the first base, you can absolutely club the attackers coming up that hill not suspecting you.

I can't tell you how many wookies I've killed doing this. All I have to do is run the AN-94 or XM8P Acog and a tracer dart for when the blackhawk does fly ahead, I tracer it, and 5 seconds later it goes down in flames because every engi on my team shoots a Carl Gustav at it.

Last night I went 23 and 3 doing this and we stopped the attackers at the first base. that's almost a third of my teams total kills for the round.

DICE has seriously destroyed the balance of this game by buffing the tracer and AA guns. the blackhawks are useless.

********************

Also, DICE, look at this huge lag thread in the US forum, you know, the one you guys INTENTIONALLY IGNORE?

Major lag lately - Battlefield Bad Company 2 General Discussion - Battlefield Bad Company 2: EA Forums

Marquee_Moon · 25-05-2010, 02:46 PM

yeah I thought tracer needed a tiny buff as it used to be same speed as gustav but read TINY

also blawks were fine, it was just attack helos so strengthening aa gun and nerfing chopper gunner should have been enough

Obelysk · 25-05-2010, 03:06 PM

The smoke perk needs a faster cool down, you may be able to remove one tracer dart but a second one is almost guaranteed to hit you way before smoke is ready for reuse. Had like 3-4 guys using tracers last night and while I could shake them off for quite some time the amount of tracer darts coming my way and slooooooooow smoke reload times kept getting me shot down.

sideshowbob · 25-05-2010, 03:31 PM

I pilot the Bhawk frequently, and still rarely get traced.
hell, i usually forget to even equip the smoke spec.

davebatt · 25-05-2010, 03:46 PM

On Isla Innocentes it really does pay to have a skilled operator on the the UAV to pin down the tracer darter with it's 50 cal (although you do need to be vigilant towards defenders getting on one of the rocks that give line of site to the operator console).

I have noticed the blackhawk does appear to be used more for it's intended role, getting in and dropping off troops now as opposed to flying around in circles mini-gunning everything that moves.

I have to admit I have had a few laughs sniping the snipers with my tracer dart (followed by an RPG) recently though.

Lambo805 · 25-05-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelysk

The smoke perk needs a faster cool down, you may be able to remove one tracer dart but a second one is almost guaranteed to hit you way before smoke is ready for reuse. Had like 3-4 guys using tracers last night and while I could shake them off for quite some time the amount of tracer darts coming my way and slooooooooow smoke reload times kept getting me shot down.

It'd also be nice if it actually worked. Half the time I pop flares and I still have a tracer on me. I found a way around this though, roll Assault with 40mm smokes and when you get all traced up (my engy rolls armor just in case) fly to a relatively safe spot and shoot your helo. Works every time.

DocLobo · 25-05-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davebatt

I have noticed the blackhawk does appear to be used more for it's intended role, getting in and dropping off troops now as opposed to flying around in circles mini-gunning everything that moves.

Yes, this is true. Gone are the days (thankfully) of two, long-lasting, circling BH's mowing down all the island property. The BH is better served by ferrying troops.

Chipfoamy · 25-05-2010, 03:56 PM

Good for you, my friend still pilots extremely well and we destroy the enemies en masse.

He uses armor to avoid that first hit take down then flies off to be repaired. Rinse and repeat and you've got yourself what you think has been eliminated. What you're saying just isn't true for us atleast. Although I don't see many people choosing engi besides me anyway, except some of my friends on Isla, then we do what you're complaining about but we haven't encountered a team that does the same, a couple engis at most and they get taken down easy after they trace... if they even remember to put it on.

Lambo805 · 25-05-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocLobo

Yes, this is true. Gone are the days (thankfully) of two, long-lasting, circling BH's mowing down all the island property. The BH is better served by ferrying troops.

Personally, I still do that. But I do check frequently back at our base to see if there's people queuing for the chopper. I'll make a hope back and drop them off. lalalalaes my clan off, but after all it is still just a transport helo.

robert66jr · 25-05-2010, 06:57 PM

The amount of tags I got on one Blackhawk last night, made it look like a Blinking civilian aircraft.... I just wished that there had been one engineer equiped with an RPG or Carl to shoot the bloodyhawk down. Waste of tagging otherwise....

Addddam · 25-05-2010, 07:11 PM

I unlocked the tracer post-patch and actually find that I need to munch through two or three darts before one actually lands on target. Maybe I've just not gotten used to the speed of it yet, but I even find myself missing tanks when I aim it dead on. Is this the apparently broken hit detection, my just missing, or some other problem entirely?

Also, I hop into a Black Hawk occasionally because it's about the only vehicle I can drive/pilot with any success (besides the quad bike). I do pretty well with it - point it in a direction where both gunners can see some enemies, hold it steady so they can decimate their targets, and speed upwards or downwards to avoid any lock-ons. The honest truth is that I rarely even get tracer'd and/or shot down.

xxpantherrrxx · 25-05-2010, 07:14 PM

lol @ this guy complaining because he can't noob around in the BH anymore. BH are transport helicopters, the mini guns are there for pure defense. Not offense.

If you are a good pilot you will know to always carry vehicle smoke as well.

ghostsoldier-nc · 25-05-2010, 07:22 PM

IMO, it has always been broken. Pre-dart patch the tracer was pretty much useless, really only setting a dart if a chopper was hovering. I would just use the CG and be done with it (with no dart).
Now, post-dart patch, it's really very easy to dart anything. So I guess the fix should've been somewhere in between.
Yeah, always use smoke. Especially on this map even if you consider piloting a chopper. A good counter-measure, it is.

Lambo805 · 25-05-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxpantherrrxx

lol @ this guy complaining because he can't noob around in the BH anymore. BH are transport helicopters, the mini guns are there for pure defense. Not offense.

If you are a good pilot you will know to always carry vehicle smoke as well.

For a second I saw the "xx" at the end of your name and thought you were my engy. I was trying to figure out why you'd make such a contradictory statement.

Anyways, the usual setup for us on Isla/Valp is assault/assault/engy. I fly as assault with smokes, my gunner runs warheads and is the other assault and our engy uses armor and tears people down with RPG-7s since he's trying to get his platinum. During ammo refill breaks, he repairs the helicopter. One Valp map I must've seen about 300 tracers and maybe about that many rockets fly up at us, several hit, but there isn't much you can do against a good setup. We got shot down once, and that was by a stationary when I was hovering to drop someone off about 30 yards in front of it.

Obelysk · 25-05-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambo805

It'd also be nice if it actually worked. Half the time I pop flares and I still have a tracer on me. I found a way around this though, roll Assault with 40mm smokes and when you get all traced up (my engy rolls armor just in case) fly to a relatively safe spot and shoot your helo. Works every time.

Yeah I've seen this before but I think it might be due to lag, I say most of the time it works as it should. Although I have noticed that when you get tagged by more then 1 tracer at the same time the damn things don't come off.

Slaughter56k · 25-05-2010, 08:10 PM

It means that the BH is now being used to ferry troops onto the target and let the battle really commence. Much more fun that hiding around the back of the first base to dodge the snipers and blackhawks mowing down every bit of cover.

Had a few more face to face scraps with squads of medics and assaulters today - great fun. Oh, and the MG36 is now the M60 of the game IMHO.

Obelysk · 25-05-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaughter56k

It means that the BH is now being used to ferry troops onto the target and let the battle really commence. Much more fun that hiding around the back of the first base to dodge the snipers and blackhawks mowing down every bit of cover.

Had a few more face to face scraps with squads of medics and assaulters today - great fun. Oh, and the MG36 is now the M60 of the game IMHO.

I don't think they did anything to the MG36, may be you mean the MG3?

Hi0Marc · 25-05-2010, 08:45 PM

I do enjoy the BH flying, and the tracer dart is now a lalalala for it. However, i still think the main problem for it is the machine gun, if snipers dont kill the user then the heli lasts no time at all with all the M95's and rockets.
Solutions?
- Armour perk to make sure you last a little bit longer
- Smoke perk to disengage the tracer, this perk easily the least used vperk.
- Fly like the clappers. Good, if you can tell your team to get out at the right point and when they do anyway. Bad, as they often like to minigun their way in and a steady ship brings assist points when they do kill.

But really, the combination of tracer and Gustav doesnt put the team at any disadvantage at all. They'd have the rocket anyway and unless you enter a wookie close range the 2ndary gun slot doesnt tend to matter when winning.

Chipfoamy · 25-05-2010, 08:58 PM

Tagging today was horrid, so much lag in the darts made it so they stuck in place for half a second before actually firing, quite annoying

Cheesewiz37 · 25-05-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marquee_Moon

yeah I thought tracer needed a tiny buff as it used to be same speed as gustav but read TINY

also blawks were fine, it was just attack helos so strengthening aa gun and nerfing chopper gunner should have been enough

I don't think it would've been enough against the attack choppers, even now a REALLY good pilot is hard to take down. But it's too bad the transport choppers got affected so much by the tracer changes, they were actually balanced before the change.

robert66jr · 25-05-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxpantherrrxx

BH are transport helicopters, the mini guns are there for pure defense. Not offense.

Mu ha ha ha ha ha ha........

Sorry but I took down the Hind twice in one match as a Blackhawk Pilot, With two gunners... Mid air dog fights with transport Chopters

.
First was just after taking the 2nd set, we zoomed over the hill and their she was just taking off.... 'Let' it Rip' I said and the gunners opened up..... Sweet burst into flames... Next Time I came around from picking up more grunts I some how found her airborne and managed to get in behind her and I stayed on her lalala till she went down yet again....

qjp4582 · 25-05-2010, 11:19 PM

YouTube - Pantera - I'm Broken (Video)

Slaughter56k · 26-05-2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelysk

I don't think they did anything to the MG36, may be you mean the MG3?

Yes, you may well be right.

All I know is that I killed a fellow with it, nicked it off his then got 5 kills in less than 7 seconds with it - half their team came running towards me so I shot them......

mduncombe · 26-05-2010, 09:53 AM

I don't think its broken. Its still possible for the attackers to do well without the helo. The jet skis are fast and can get round the back of the base without too much problem. Infantry can sneak down the road. I tend to time a jet ski run with a black hawk assault as many defenders are looking up at the sky.

Besides cant you equip the helo with smoke to shake off the tracers?

The change just emphasises the Blackhawks role as a transport rather than a mobile gun platform and its still a threat with a good pilot

Quansters · 26-05-2010, 09:59 AM

Tsshh, blackhawk is almost useless as an attacking vehicle even before the patch because of the mini bb gun. It's only good for distraction since it made half of the defender team spraying at the sky with small arm (lol) and running around like headless chickens even though the black hawk barely get any skill

It's a transporting vehicle.... and u'll be surprise how much devastating it can do. I've taken plenty of crates from just landing a full loaded black hawk directly on the m-com. The defender though i gonna circle blackhawk around the island, but they were wrong. 5 people + some spawning squadmates is more than enough to take a crates. 1 person can stay on the minigun and spray until the blackhawk get destroyed ( the person can jump out easily and stay alive). The debris/smoke of the blackhawk can be use for cover too.

After the crates is armed, even if the defender manage to kill all 5 attackers, some recon probably will drop mortar onto the m-com and keep it from getting disarm anyway. Now imagine if 2 fully loaded blackhawk landed on the m-com =)

25-05-2010, 02:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
GFUNKSOUND2 Rookie Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 148	Isla Inocentes = Broken First of all, Isla Inocentes WAS (past tense) all about blackhawk play and how skilled a pilot you were determined how long you lasted in the air. A skill BH pilot COULD (past tense) really help his team. After DICE caved into the noobs and buffed the tracer dart to Laser Dart making the Blackhawk useless, Isla Inocentes attackers are kinda left to swim or boat to the main island, both of which gets you spotted or killed. Add this to the fact that more people are realizing if you get 4 guys up on that first hill where noobs always snipe from at the first base, you can absolutely club the attackers coming up that hill not suspecting you. I can't tell you how many wookies I've killed doing this. All I have to do is run the AN-94 or XM8P Acog and a tracer dart for when the blackhawk does fly ahead, I tracer it, and 5 seconds later it goes down in flames because every engi on my team shoots a Carl Gustav at it. Last night I went 23 and 3 doing this and we stopped the attackers at the first base. that's almost a third of my teams total kills for the round. DICE has seriously destroyed the balance of this game by buffing the tracer and AA guns. the blackhawks are useless. ******************** Also, DICE, look at this huge lag thread in the US forum, you know, the one you guys INTENTIONALLY IGNORE? Major lag lately - Battlefield Bad Company 2 General Discussion - Battlefield Bad Company 2: EA Forums __________________

25-05-2010, 03:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Obelysk Rookie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 468	The smoke perk needs a faster cool down, you may be able to remove one tracer dart but a second one is almost guaranteed to hit you way before smoke is ready for reuse. Had like 3-4 guys using tracers last night and while I could shake them off for quite some time the amount of tracer darts coming my way and slooooooooow smoke reload times kept getting me shot down. __________________

25-05-2010, 03:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
sideshowbob Forum Regular Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 793	I pilot the Bhawk frequently, and still rarely get traced. hell, i usually forget to even equip the smoke spec. __________________ I love to reload during a battle! there is nothing like the feeling of sliding a long, sliver bullet, into a well-greased chamber.

25-05-2010, 06:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
robert66jr Rookie Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 179	The amount of tags I got on one Blackhawk last night, made it look like a Blinking civilian aircraft.... I just wished that there had been one engineer equiped with an RPG or Carl to shoot the bloodyhawk down. Waste of tagging otherwise.... __________________ A simple Support Mission they said.....

25-05-2010, 07:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Addddam Rookie Join Date: May 2010 Location: Derby, UK Age: 18 Posts: 128	I unlocked the tracer post-patch and actually find that I need to munch through two or three darts before one actually lands on target. Maybe I've just not gotten used to the speed of it yet, but I even find myself missing tanks when I aim it dead on. Is this the apparently broken hit detection, my just missing, or some other problem entirely? Also, I hop into a Black Hawk occasionally because it's about the only vehicle I can drive/pilot with any success (besides the quad bike). I do pretty well with it - point it in a direction where both gunners can see some enemies, hold it steady so they can decimate their targets, and speed upwards or downwards to avoid any lock-ons. The honest truth is that I rarely even get tracer'd and/or shot down. __________________

25-05-2010, 02:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Marquee_Moon Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 66	yeah I thought tracer needed a tiny buff as it used to be same speed as gustav but read TINY also blawks were fine, it was just attack helos so strengthening aa gun and nerfing chopper gunner should have been enough

25-05-2010, 03:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
davebatt Rookie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6	On Isla Innocentes it really does pay to have a skilled operator on the the UAV to pin down the tracer darter with it's 50 cal (although you do need to be vigilant towards defenders getting on one of the rocks that give line of site to the operator console). I have noticed the blackhawk does appear to be used more for it's intended role, getting in and dropping off troops now as opposed to flying around in circles mini-gunning everything that moves. I have to admit I have had a few laughs sniping the snipers with my tracer dart (followed by an RPG) recently though.

25-05-2010, 03:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Chipfoamy Rookie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 20	Good for you, my friend still pilots extremely well and we destroy the enemies en masse. He uses armor to avoid that first hit take down then flies off to be repaired. Rinse and repeat and you've got yourself what you think has been eliminated. What you're saying just isn't true for us atleast. Although I don't see many people choosing engi besides me anyway, except some of my friends on Isla, then we do what you're complaining about but we haven't encountered a team that does the same, a couple engis at most and they get taken down easy after they trace... if they even remember to put it on.

25-05-2010, 07:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
xxpantherrrxx Rookie Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 109	lol @ this guy complaining because he can't noob around in the BH anymore. BH are transport helicopters, the mini guns are there for pure defense. Not offense. If you are a good pilot you will know to always carry vehicle smoke as well.

25-05-2010, 07:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
ghostsoldier-nc Rookie Join Date: May 2009 Location: N. Carolina, US Posts: 432	IMO, it has always been broken. Pre-dart patch the tracer was pretty much useless, really only setting a dart if a chopper was hovering. I would just use the CG and be done with it (with no dart). Now, post-dart patch, it's really very easy to dart anything. So I guess the fix should've been somewhere in between. Yeah, always use smoke. Especially on this map even if you consider piloting a chopper. A good counter-measure, it is.

25-05-2010, 08:10 PM	#16 (permalink)
Slaughter56k Forum Guru Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,234	It means that the BH is now being used to ferry troops onto the target and let the battle really commence. Much more fun that hiding around the back of the first base to dodge the snipers and blackhawks mowing down every bit of cover. Had a few more face to face scraps with squads of medics and assaulters today - great fun. Oh, and the MG36 is now the M60 of the game IMHO.

25-05-2010, 08:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
Hi0Marc Rookie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 447	I do enjoy the BH flying, and the tracer dart is now a lalalala for it. However, i still think the main problem for it is the machine gun, if snipers dont kill the user then the heli lasts no time at all with all the M95's and rockets. Solutions? - Armour perk to make sure you last a little bit longer - Smoke perk to disengage the tracer, this perk easily the least used vperk. - Fly like the clappers. Good, if you can tell your team to get out at the right point and when they do anyway. Bad, as they often like to minigun their way in and a steady ship brings assist points when they do kill. But really, the combination of tracer and Gustav doesnt put the team at any disadvantage at all. They'd have the rocket anyway and unless you enter a wookie close range the 2ndary gun slot doesnt tend to matter when winning. __________________ Hi0Marc On the PS3.

25-05-2010, 08:58 PM	#19 (permalink)
Chipfoamy Rookie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 20	Tagging today was horrid, so much lag in the darts made it so they stuck in place for half a second before actually firing, quite annoying

25-05-2010, 11:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
qjp4582 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Banbridge N.I. Posts: 170	YouTube - Pantera - I'm Broken (Video)

26-05-2010, 09:53 AM	#24 (permalink)
mduncombe Rookie Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 22	I don't think its broken. Its still possible for the attackers to do well without the helo. The jet skis are fast and can get round the back of the base without too much problem. Infantry can sneak down the road. I tend to time a jet ski run with a black hawk assault as many defenders are looking up at the sky. Besides cant you equip the helo with smoke to shake off the tracers? The change just emphasises the Blackhawks role as a transport rather than a mobile gun platform and its still a threat with a good pilot

26-05-2010, 09:59 AM	#25 (permalink)
Quansters Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 583	Tsshh, blackhawk is almost useless as an attacking vehicle even before the patch because of the mini bb gun. It's only good for distraction since it made half of the defender team spraying at the sky with small arm (lol) and running around like headless chickens even though the black hawk barely get any skill It's a transporting vehicle.... and u'll be surprise how much devastating it can do. I've taken plenty of crates from just landing a full loaded black hawk directly on the m-com. The defender though i gonna circle blackhawk around the island, but they were wrong. 5 people + some spawning squadmates is more than enough to take a crates. 1 person can stay on the minigun and spray until the blackhawk get destroyed ( the person can jump out easily and stay alive). The debris/smoke of the blackhawk can be use for cover too. After the crates is armed, even if the defender manage to kill all 5 attackers, some recon probably will drop mortar onto the m-com and keep it from getting disarm anyway. Now imagine if 2 fully loaded blackhawk landed on the m-com =)

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