Game play balance! Jets (J-10s and so on)

Oddsodzlost · 09-10-2007, 11:19 AM

Ok lets discuss Jets. What would you like to see changed (If anything).

Lots of players complain about the J-10 being just to powerful.

I Say it's not. Here's why. On every map that has a J-10. There is a counter tactic to beat it. On Wake you can take the Airfield flag. On Dragon Vally, You can take the refinery flag. On Fusee pass you have F-18's. And the same on Daqkin.

The only map that does not have a counter tactic to beat the J-10 is Dalain Plant. I Would like to see one of the F-35B's replaced with an F-18. Also I would like to see the CWIZ on the Essex tweaked so that the AA rockets don't always vear off and hit friendlys aircraft. If it's going to miss the enemy aircraft, Let it miss and go nowhere. Getting the CWIZ is a sure fire way of getting a team kill. Out of the 8 rockets that it can fire, All but one of them will miss the enemy aircraft. But you can bet your last rolo that 2 of them will hit your friendly F-35B that is running from the J-10.

What do you think?

Thenoob836 · 09-10-2007, 04:42 PM

K, get rit of the 5 bomb bombers(just 2, and no tv missle), make the AA work

Thats about it from me about jets....

mzzls

alchobot · 09-10-2007, 06:58 PM

I don't care about jet vs jet, let us grunts have the tools to shoot them down - at least when they're going so slow that the planes undercarriage is down. Don't flag a manned AA site in the cockpit of the plane and give the AA a greater lock-on range than an aircraft gun. If the plane knows where the AA vehicle is then shouldn't all planes be flagged on the vehicles radar sweep, it's too biased towards aircraft and that's why inf only is so popular - you can stay out of range of grens & comm can spot snipers. In the BF42 mod DC, the helis and planes were vulnerable to unguided sam's and learnt to be careful of grunts on the ground. The only AA I can rule aircraft with is on the Essex, probably get killed about twice to 10 kills - if the pilots are really skilled it breaks even but that is worth it as they're concentrating on me not on the troops fighting on the beach. It's the one time I don't mind base raping. I prefer inf only now and only play vehicles if servers are empty or full of people with assisted skills, sigh.

Braidedheadman · 09-10-2007, 09:19 PM

The complaints against the J10 were never so much about it being overpowered (although its Teflon-coated collision mesh is highly suspect). No, the problem lies squarely with the F35, whose collision model on the tail end was constructed in such a way that it's like flying around the map with the Essex in tow. The collision mesh around the tail fins, engine, and rudders is truly immense when compared to any other aircraft. The result is an aircraft with maneuverability that is poorer than the J10's and at the same time has roughly double the surface area upon which to score a hit. For that matter, the J10s collision mesh doesn’t even cover parts of its chassis in some places for chrissakes. The net result is that the F35 hasn't a snowball's prayer in hell the moment the J10 acquires its six where the J10 can let slide a few hits here and there. The J10 only needs to fire one missile to force an F35 to drop all its flares, wait for the re-lock, and spam the rest for a guaranteed kill 95% of the time.

The F35 fairs similarly against the Mig and the Flanker on Oman, though not as badly given that those two jets are not as nimble as the J10. But it has been a problem through which the F35 has had to endure ever since EA/Dice messed with AA, trying to improve it for the ground pounders. While I understand the motivation for wanting the old AA changed, EA/Dice's biggest mistake was that they did not distinguish between S2A and A2A AA weapons.

To make matters worse, they managed to screw the whole deal up considerably anyways. If you weren't around at the time and haven't seen what it was like or have forgotten, go Google BF2 Insane AA missiles and browse through the YouTube results to refresh your mind on just how completely and utterly screwed up this game has been (and persists in being to this day). Keep in mind that what you are seeing in those videos were not taken from beta testing or any other QA source of any kind. These were made on live server environments and are the result of a series of patches that EA/Dice shamelessly released to the public, all the time telling us how they had our best interest at heart, a line they would still like us to believe today. (Gee. That sounds familiar somehow.)

Here is a thread wherein the author gives an excellent, brief summary of the balance of airpower through BF2's patch cycle.

If someone else can dig up and find those pictures that show the F35’s screwed up collision mesh, I'd appreciate that because I've got to run.

For the record, I would like to submit that tuning air power balance issues is not the monumental task that EA/Dice claims it to be. The mods have done a fantastic job of balancing both A2A and G2A without making cookie-cutter versions of each for all teams.

Mrky203 · 10-10-2007, 06:48 AM

Hey mods dont this sound like patch discussion in disguise??

kosh0r · 10-10-2007, 08:12 AM

im getting the feeling ea is paying ppl (or maybe they are ea-ppl) to post pro-ea and anti-patch messages here in this forum...

"its not as bad, as you think"
"i can beat the j10"
"aa works fine, if you use it right"
"bf2 does not need a patch"

nobody postet this in the old forum...
pretent to be a user and post pro-company stuff is a very common tactic.

Oddsodzlost · 10-10-2007, 08:33 AM

You are right bout the F-35B being a flying coffin when the J-10 is in the sky. Not so much for me as I know how to fly the F-35B. And I can eat Migs for breakfast (I really am just that good in a jet). But what about the F-35B bombing the hell out of the ground troops when the USMC has taken the PLA airfield. It's all good then to be in the F-35B. The PLA needs a good jet to stop the raping. But if the USMC get the airfields. Then is game over for the PLA. If you tweak the F-35B to be able to dodge the rockets. Then the ground base AA will never have a chance. I Love flying the F-35B. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when ever I kill a J-10 and get called a hack for my flying skills. The best way I believe to give the F-35B better odds when up agained a J-10 is to give the CWIZ Essex AA a tweak. This in turn would stop the J-10 raping the hell out of the Essex. I Can tell you now that if I am in a J-10. I Can hold the hole USMC at bay. Great points for me. But no fun for the rest of the players on the server, my team included. And any map with a Mig in it is great fun for me. But not every player has the pilots skills I have learned. Yes I know I look like a nub bragging. Here is the stats link for them that want to see

My super duper stats

Another way is the just make the J-10 rockets less accreate. But then you you would have to nurf the F-18. Do you really want that? I good pilot can dodge J-10's all day long in the F-18.

You have to remeber that a change in one jets has a knock on effect for the whole map.
And so the map balance is changed. Would you agree?

Oddsodzlost · 10-10-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh0r

im getting the feeling ea is paying ppl (or maybe they are ea-ppl) to post pro-ea and anti-patch messages here in this forum...

"its not as bad, as you think"
"i can beat the j10"
"aa works fine, if you use it right"
"bf2 does not need a patch"

nobody postet this in the old forum...
pretent to be a user and post pro-company stuff is a very common tactic.

lol I Wish I was getting paid by EA. I need a job

Swoold · 10-10-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh0r

"i can beat the j10"
"aa works fine, if you use it right"

nobody postet this in the old forum...
pretent to be a user and post pro-company stuff is a very common tactic.

How long were you on the old forum? People used to post this all the time during these kinds of discussions, mainly jet jockeys.

RaptorUK · 10-10-2007, 06:35 PM

Yeah, j10 owns all, looks like it will never have any real competition apart from the F18.

MarlboroDragon · 10-10-2007, 07:26 PM

On J10 maps give the f35b heatseakers like the linebacker.

Braidedheadman · 10-10-2007, 09:26 PM

I'm sorry, I still just don't buy it. And even if you do, you are just one in 1000's - perhaps 10's of 1000's who seems able to. The fact is that not everyone will have mastered the F35 like that - and I seriously doubt that the could, given they F35’s inherent handicaps and the true jeth0's penchant for sniping lesser pilots out of "their" precious little toys. The fact remains that people are not enjoying this game to the fullest because of dodgy design issues and the poorest support record I've ever seen.

And I still vigorously oppose your suggestion that being able to lose the PLA air field because it's not a UCB is somehow a balancing factor for the J10 vs F35. If the F35 must rely on ground forces securing flags in order to be effective, that's not air balance. It's not doing a thing to provide the kind of A2A support that the ground forces require.

What is supposed to balance these kinds of maps is that whenever a faction has a UCB and the other faction doesn't, the assaulting faction starts off with 0 flags, a ticket deficit, and is bleeding tickets until they capture enough flags to halt the bleed. That is the balance on uni-UCB maps that was meant to be achieved. It was never meant to balance hardware-to-hardware conflicts.

And again, I'm sorry, but trying to suggest that the "it just so happens to be" fact that the PLA on Wake doesn't have a UCB airfield somehow balances the pitifully weak F35 is just absurd. Moreover, as I’ve already pointed out, it flies in the face of other situations where that sort of imbalance does not occur (Karkand, Sharqi, Jalalabad, etc.) and where the map's design in no way compensates for the things that you would have us believe that it does (TV Station chopper raping on Sharqi). You've skirted this argument without addressing it by bringing up the "Map vs Hardware" balance by design argument again. You need to prove that what is effective (and true) for one should be effective for all before I can accept this as valid.

I also suggest that the global W/L ratio for the PLA vs the USMC on Wake Island (or Dalian especially, given that the PLA airfield is a UCB) would probably strongly favor the PLA. People on the PLA really do have to be complete idiots if they are losing to the USMC and their F35. I concede that, at times, this may not be far from the truth as the J10h0s all done their best sniper dresses and you have half the PLA team waiting to respawn by the time the first USMC air drop finally arrives. But that doesn't balance the airpower either, nor does it explain why the F35 is being used as the world’s fastest, most expensive single-occupant taxi.

Oddsodzlost · 11-10-2007, 03:17 AM

I Myself think that Wake is a fair map. Hell if your team do a good job, The USMC get to have 3 jets in the sky. Dalian is so unbalanced to the PLA. PLA do have to be silly to lose. And that is why I said an F-18 would help there. Just one will do. Sharqi I think could do with an extra IGLA at the back or side of the TV flag. That MI-28 is just a ticket bleeder all on it's own. Not sure about what to do about that. Maybe give the USMC a Tagar HARP? I Really don't know. Also an idea that that has just poped in to my head. The boats could do with some top side armor. Change the boat design so that it has a roof. One of the things that stops the USMC getting on land and bleeding ticket bad is the J-10 killing full boat as if there are made of paper. But the FAV has more manoverability than a boat and has buildings to run and hide behind to get away form a strafing jet. The Boat does not. And this is one of the key things on Dalian. And why is it a jet can strafe a FAV/DPV and kill in 5 secs flat. But a tank has to put 2 shells to kill it?

Side note. Somebody posted here that my ground pounding stats are poor (ooks like a mod deleted it). Well My answer to that is I play almost all my game time at Full Contact War server (70.85.234.202:16567) And it's all about the team work on that server. And so my stats don't show the skill. But I will take the Pepsi challenge. Come play at that server and see how hard it is for your J-10 to dominate the map. There is a "NO Bombing UCB" Rule. So that shows you that my jet skills comes from dog fighting and not just bombing the UCB for cheap kills.

kosh0r · 11-10-2007, 07:01 AM

a tank does not need 2 shells for an dpv/fav...

u just need one shell + some 7.62mm rounds to kill a humvee/vodnik/NJ 2046

Vykk Draygo · 11-10-2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddsodzlost

I Myself think that Wake is a fair map. Hell if your team do a good job, The USMC get to have 3 jets in the sky. Dalian is so unbalanced to the PLA. PLA do have to be silly to lose. And that is why I said an F-18 would help there. Just one will do. Sharqi I think could do with an extra IGLA at the back or side of the TV flag. That MI-28 is just a ticket bleeder all on it's own. Not sure about what to do about that. Maybe give the USMC a Tagar HARP? I Really don't know. Also an idea that that has just poped in to my head. The boats could do with some top side armor. Change the boat design so that it has a roof. One of the things that stops the USMC getting on land and bleeding ticket bad is the J-10 killing full boat as if there are made of paper. But the FAV has more manoverability than a boat and has buildings to run and hide behind to get away form a strafing jet. The Boat does not. And this is one of the key things on Dalian. And why is it a jet can strafe a FAV/DPV and kill in 5 secs flat. But a tank has to put 2 shells to kill it?

Side note. Somebody posted here that my ground pounding stats are poor (ooks like a mod deleted it). Well My answer to that is I play almost all my game time at Full Contact War server (70.85.234.202:16567) And it's all about the team work on that server. And so my stats don't show the skill. But I will take the Pepsi challenge. Come play at that server and see how hard it is for your J-10 to dominate the map. There is a "NO Bombing UCB" Rule. So that shows you that my jet skills comes from dog fighting and not just bombing the UCB for cheap kills.

It's a fair map, yes.. but no one ever does their job. This isn't a scrim, or some other kind of tournament. They're pubs, which means hardly is there any teamwork. You might have a squad or two that does their job, but on a 64/32 man server.. that is nothing!

What usually happens is the F-35b pilot gets in his vehicle first, and starts heading to the Airfield. When the F-35b is past the island, the J-10 pilot is already taking off the runway. The F-35b starts heading down the middle, and the J-10 gets right behind him and blows him up. Then, the J-10 usually circles around to take down any blackhawks or AH1Zs in the air. Meanwhile, the J-10 has already spawned and the F-35b is still waiting to respawn (in case you didn't now, the J-10 spawntime is quicker than the F-35b). So the J-10 spawns and heads straight to the carrier to rape!

And usually two people spawn out the North Village and South Base to get in tanks/cars and head down to the tips of each place. So all transportation is almost always lost, unless there is a good AH1Z pilot/gunner that can take them down. If that happens, they usually get a few boats/helicopter to capture South Base/North Village.

And the F-35b are always pinned down, only used by a quick transportation to the Airfield or some spawn point. That's not how it should be.. whether or not they have an uncap base or not. If you say the J-10s SHOULD be over powered.. ok.. fine.. but AT LEAST HAVE THE RESPAWN TIMER FOR THEM TO BE JUST AS LONG OR LONGER THAN THE F-35B!

I say the only time I see a balanced game is when it's a 32 man server, with a no-rape the carrier rule and a few admins present. Other than that, most of the time it's unbalanced.

And I can't talk about any other map, as I don't play them. Except Kubra, now that is a very fair map! And MEC always win, even though they do not have a uncap.

MADMICKYRAF · 11-10-2007, 11:31 AM

any thing that flys can be taken down with aa just gotta time it right when you lock on fire once then wait till there flares die down then unleash the rest, works for me if you listen thro headphones its easy to tell where there coming from and antisipate where they will attack from and always keep moving any way i heard that pilots only fly cos they cant fight a ground battle and its easy points to kill with random bombs lol (just a rumour

)

alchobot · 11-10-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh0r

im getting the feeling ea is paying ppl (or maybe they are ea-ppl) to post pro-ea and anti-patch messages here in this forum...

"its not as bad, as you think"
"i can beat the j10"
"aa works fine, if you use it right"
"bf2 does not need a patch"

nobody postet this in the old forum...
pretent to be a user and post pro-company stuff is a very common tactic.

they're not paying me, have to buy my own red wine !!

OapSCi-Fi · 12-10-2007, 06:14 PM

yawn! look there is gonna be no more patches, ive moaned til ive been blue in the
face abt this stuff when we were doin the beta on the patches!! We argued abt the proning but they said they fixed that, hmmmmm... Bull****!!

They didnt listen then and what makes you think that they will listen now!!

Braidedheadman · 12-10-2007, 07:40 PM

The barest thread of hope.

09-10-2007, 11:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
Oddsodzlost Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 8	Game play balance! Jets (J-10s and so on) Ok lets discuss Jets. What would you like to see changed (If anything). Lots of players complain about the J-10 being just to powerful. I Say it's not. Here's why. On every map that has a J-10. There is a counter tactic to beat it. On Wake you can take the Airfield flag. On Dragon Vally, You can take the refinery flag. On Fusee pass you have F-18's. And the same on Daqkin. The only map that does not have a counter tactic to beat the J-10 is Dalain Plant. I Would like to see one of the F-35B's replaced with an F-18. Also I would like to see the CWIZ on the Essex tweaked so that the AA rockets don't always vear off and hit friendlys aircraft. If it's going to miss the enemy aircraft, Let it miss and go nowhere. Getting the CWIZ is a sure fire way of getting a team kill. Out of the 8 rockets that it can fire, All but one of them will miss the enemy aircraft. But you can bet your last rolo that 2 of them will hit your friendly F-35B that is running from the J-10. What do you think? Last edited by Oddsodzlost; 09-10-2007 at 11:22 AM..

09-10-2007, 04:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
Thenoob836 Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 513	K, get rit of the 5 bomb bombers(just 2, and no tv missle), make the AA work Thats about it from me about jets.... mzzls __________________ veni, vidi, vici.................said the marlboro man

09-10-2007, 06:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
alchobot Rookie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 273	I don't care about jet vs jet, let us grunts have the tools to shoot them down - at least when they're going so slow that the planes undercarriage is down. Don't flag a manned AA site in the cockpit of the plane and give the AA a greater lock-on range than an aircraft gun. If the plane knows where the AA vehicle is then shouldn't all planes be flagged on the vehicles radar sweep, it's too biased towards aircraft and that's why inf only is so popular - you can stay out of range of grens & comm can spot snipers. In the BF42 mod DC, the helis and planes were vulnerable to unguided sam's and learnt to be careful of grunts on the ground. The only AA I can rule aircraft with is on the Essex, probably get killed about twice to 10 kills - if the pilots are really skilled it breaks even but that is worth it as they're concentrating on me not on the troops fighting on the beach. It's the one time I don't mind base raping. I prefer inf only now and only play vehicles if servers are empty or full of people with assisted skills, sigh. __________________ The man who sets out to carry a cat by its tail learns something that will always be useful and which never will grow dim or doubtful. - Mark Twain

09-10-2007, 09:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Braidedheadman Forum Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,112	The complaints against the J10 were never so much about it being overpowered (although its Teflon-coated collision mesh is highly suspect). No, the problem lies squarely with the F35, whose collision model on the tail end was constructed in such a way that it's like flying around the map with the Essex in tow. The collision mesh around the tail fins, engine, and rudders is truly immense when compared to any other aircraft. The result is an aircraft with maneuverability that is poorer than the J10's and at the same time has roughly double the surface area upon which to score a hit. For that matter, the J10s collision mesh doesn’t even cover parts of its chassis in some places for chrissakes. The net result is that the F35 hasn't a snowball's prayer in hell the moment the J10 acquires its six where the J10 can let slide a few hits here and there. The J10 only needs to fire one missile to force an F35 to drop all its flares, wait for the re-lock, and spam the rest for a guaranteed kill 95% of the time. The F35 fairs similarly against the Mig and the Flanker on Oman, though not as badly given that those two jets are not as nimble as the J10. But it has been a problem through which the F35 has had to endure ever since EA/Dice messed with AA, trying to improve it for the ground pounders. While I understand the motivation for wanting the old AA changed, EA/Dice's biggest mistake was that they did not distinguish between S2A and A2A AA weapons. To make matters worse, they managed to screw the whole deal up considerably anyways. If you weren't around at the time and haven't seen what it was like or have forgotten, go Google BF2 Insane AA missiles and browse through the YouTube results to refresh your mind on just how completely and utterly screwed up this game has been (and persists in being to this day). Keep in mind that what you are seeing in those videos were not taken from beta testing or any other QA source of any kind. These were made on live server environments and are the result of a series of patches that EA/Dice shamelessly released to the public, all the time telling us how they had our best interest at heart, a line they would still like us to believe today. (Gee. That sounds familiar somehow.) Here is a thread wherein the author gives an excellent, brief summary of the balance of airpower through BF2's patch cycle. If someone else can dig up and find those pictures that show the F35’s screwed up collision mesh, I'd appreciate that because I've got to run. For the record, I would like to submit that tuning air power balance issues is not the monumental task that EA/Dice claims it to be. The mods have done a fantastic job of balancing both A2A and G2A without making cookie-cutter versions of each for all teams. __________________ Last edited by Braidedheadman; 09-10-2007 at 09:28 PM..

10-10-2007, 06:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mrky203 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Defending North Beach (Wake Island) Posts: 385	Hey mods dont this sound like patch discussion in disguise?? __________________

10-10-2007, 08:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
kosh0r Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Erfurt, Germany Age: 25 Posts: 586	im getting the feeling ea is paying ppl (or maybe they are ea-ppl) to post pro-ea and anti-patch messages here in this forum... "its not as bad, as you think" "i can beat the j10" "aa works fine, if you use it right" "bf2 does not need a patch" nobody postet this in the old forum... pretent to be a user and post pro-company stuff is a very common tactic. __________________

10-10-2007, 08:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
Oddsodzlost Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 8	You are right bout the F-35B being a flying coffin when the J-10 is in the sky. Not so much for me as I know how to fly the F-35B. And I can eat Migs for breakfast (I really am just that good in a jet). But what about the F-35B bombing the hell out of the ground troops when the USMC has taken the PLA airfield. It's all good then to be in the F-35B. The PLA needs a good jet to stop the raping. But if the USMC get the airfields. Then is game over for the PLA. If you tweak the F-35B to be able to dodge the rockets. Then the ground base AA will never have a chance. I Love flying the F-35B. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when ever I kill a J-10 and get called a hack for my flying skills. The best way I believe to give the F-35B better odds when up agained a J-10 is to give the CWIZ Essex AA a tweak. This in turn would stop the J-10 raping the hell out of the Essex. I Can tell you now that if I am in a J-10. I Can hold the hole USMC at bay. Great points for me. But no fun for the rest of the players on the server, my team included. And any map with a Mig in it is great fun for me. But not every player has the pilots skills I have learned. Yes I know I look like a nub bragging. Here is the stats link for them that want to see My super duper stats Another way is the just make the J-10 rockets less accreate. But then you you would have to nurf the F-18. Do you really want that? I good pilot can dodge J-10's all day long in the F-18. You have to remeber that a change in one jets has a knock on effect for the whole map. And so the map balance is changed. Would you agree?

10-10-2007, 06:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
RaptorUK Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: London Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 500	Yeah, j10 owns all, looks like it will never have any real competition apart from the F18. Last edited by RaptorUK; 10-10-2007 at 06:39 PM..

10-10-2007, 07:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
MarlboroDragon Rookie Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15	On J10 maps give the f35b heatseakers like the linebacker.

10-10-2007, 09:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
Braidedheadman Forum Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,112	I'm sorry, I still just don't buy it. And even if you do, you are just one in 1000's - perhaps 10's of 1000's who seems able to. The fact is that not everyone will have mastered the F35 like that - and I seriously doubt that the could, given they F35’s inherent handicaps and the true jeth0's penchant for sniping lesser pilots out of "their" precious little toys. The fact remains that people are not enjoying this game to the fullest because of dodgy design issues and the poorest support record I've ever seen. And I still vigorously oppose your suggestion that being able to lose the PLA air field because it's not a UCB is somehow a balancing factor for the J10 vs F35. If the F35 must rely on ground forces securing flags in order to be effective, that's not air balance. It's not doing a thing to provide the kind of A2A support that the ground forces require. What is supposed to balance these kinds of maps is that whenever a faction has a UCB and the other faction doesn't, the assaulting faction starts off with 0 flags, a ticket deficit, and is bleeding tickets until they capture enough flags to halt the bleed. That is the balance on uni-UCB maps that was meant to be achieved. It was never meant to balance hardware-to-hardware conflicts. And again, I'm sorry, but trying to suggest that the "it just so happens to be" fact that the PLA on Wake doesn't have a UCB airfield somehow balances the pitifully weak F35 is just absurd. Moreover, as I’ve already pointed out, it flies in the face of other situations where that sort of imbalance does not occur (Karkand, Sharqi, Jalalabad, etc.) and where the map's design in no way compensates for the things that you would have us believe that it does (TV Station chopper raping on Sharqi). You've skirted this argument without addressing it by bringing up the "Map vs Hardware" balance by design argument again. You need to prove that what is effective (and true) for one should be effective for all before I can accept this as valid. I also suggest that the global W/L ratio for the PLA vs the USMC on Wake Island (or Dalian especially, given that the PLA airfield is a UCB) would probably strongly favor the PLA. People on the PLA really do have to be complete idiots if they are losing to the USMC and their F35. I concede that, at times, this may not be far from the truth as the J10h0s all done their best sniper dresses and you have half the PLA team waiting to respawn by the time the first USMC air drop finally arrives. But that doesn't balance the airpower either, nor does it explain why the F35 is being used as the world’s fastest, most expensive single-occupant taxi. __________________

11-10-2007, 03:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
Oddsodzlost Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 8	I Myself think that Wake is a fair map. Hell if your team do a good job, The USMC get to have 3 jets in the sky. Dalian is so unbalanced to the PLA. PLA do have to be silly to lose. And that is why I said an F-18 would help there. Just one will do. Sharqi I think could do with an extra IGLA at the back or side of the TV flag. That MI-28 is just a ticket bleeder all on it's own. Not sure about what to do about that. Maybe give the USMC a Tagar HARP? I Really don't know. Also an idea that that has just poped in to my head. The boats could do with some top side armor. Change the boat design so that it has a roof. One of the things that stops the USMC getting on land and bleeding ticket bad is the J-10 killing full boat as if there are made of paper. But the FAV has more manoverability than a boat and has buildings to run and hide behind to get away form a strafing jet. The Boat does not. And this is one of the key things on Dalian. And why is it a jet can strafe a FAV/DPV and kill in 5 secs flat. But a tank has to put 2 shells to kill it? Side note. Somebody posted here that my ground pounding stats are poor (ooks like a mod deleted it). Well My answer to that is I play almost all my game time at Full Contact War server (70.85.234.202:16567) And it's all about the team work on that server. And so my stats don't show the skill. But I will take the Pepsi challenge. Come play at that server and see how hard it is for your J-10 to dominate the map. There is a "NO Bombing UCB" Rule. So that shows you that my jet skills comes from dog fighting and not just bombing the UCB for cheap kills.

11-10-2007, 07:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
kosh0r Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Erfurt, Germany Age: 25 Posts: 586	a tank does not need 2 shells for an dpv/fav... u just need one shell + some 7.62mm rounds to kill a humvee/vodnik/NJ 2046 __________________

11-10-2007, 11:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
MADMICKYRAF Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 41	any thing that flys can be taken down with aa just gotta time it right when you lock on fire once then wait till there flares die down then unleash the rest, works for me if you listen thro headphones its easy to tell where there coming from and antisipate where they will attack from and always keep moving any way i heard that pilots only fly cos they cant fight a ground battle and its easy points to kill with random bombs lol (just a rumour ) __________________ im not evil just misunderstood....................and evil

12-10-2007, 06:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
OapSCi-Fi Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 505	yawn! look there is gonna be no more patches, ive moaned til ive been blue in the face abt this stuff when we were doin the beta on the patches!! We argued abt the proning but they said they fixed that, hmmmmm... Bull****!! They didnt listen then and what makes you think that they will listen now!!

12-10-2007, 07:40 PM	#19 (permalink)
Braidedheadman Forum Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,112	The barest thread of hope. __________________